250gtpf2 vs. 275gts

[cak]

$40K sounds like an engine rebuild and a bare-metal respray plus gaskets and glass to me... what is it really?

[fest]

seems like this is OPINON time
(as we have seen
I have expressed mine from time to time)

50's Ferraris are WAY COOL...
a 'big wheel' in the local Ferrari scene
has a 50's Vignale Coupe
that the actually tours with-
quite impressive

a look under the car was a revalation:
King Pins, Drum Brakes, the whole 9 Yards
(he DID add a later Electric Fuel Pump)

the point is
it was hot then
but this is NOW
do you really want to invest big $
only be dusted by Miatas?

you may say that ride quality / noise / handling
(or lack thereof) are not factors
but they contribute mightily to the enjoyment of the car
(especially as one gets older)
unless you just want to gaze at it fondly

fighting with a balky transmission
and a stiff clutch
in a noisy hot interior
with iffy brakes
and roaring skinny tires
scrabbling for purchase
gets old real fast

I would take a later car
with Independent Rear Suspension
5-Speed Transaxle
Disc Brakes, etc

a Daytona, perhaps?

As for Benzwagen?
DOG SLED

[fest]

BTW the 275 GTS featured in this sage
was in this month's SCM
(Sports Car Market) Magazine
(great rag, sign up!)

at auction Elkhart Lake WI
July 19, 2003

Car listed as 1966 275 GTS
but with S/N 7599
NOT 7359 (typo?)

did mention Hollywood provenenance
(Ms Welch, 'Fathom', etc)
same colors, equipment
aftermarket Center Console 8-Track, etc
gotta be the same car

also mentioned
were a few other little items
like previous damage evident
for example
(did not get a favorable review)

NOT SOLD at $130,000

[sagaponack]

I have to admit, this discourse has been fascinating. Unlike many message boards, I find you gentlemen thoughtful, yet, vociferous.

And I appreciate your candor. 3009 can be found at

http://www.carclassic.com/html/DD21.htm

Thank you for your 300sl views as well.

The Sheehan GTS needs paint, dash, interior, konis, borranis, tires, and repair of a major oil leak for starters. Engine detailed and proper hoses. It probably would cost between $25k and $30k including $5k for unforseen. (i.e., the 10 $500 fixes you didn't think about. If you are scratching your head, you have never restored a car through others.)

With respect to the investment issue, I am not looking at this as an investment. I would just like to lose as little as possible and be able to sell it as quickly as possible if I wanted (or needed) to get out. I have owned 15 vintage cars and made money on three and lost on the rest. I am not counting on my batting average improving.

And again, I would rather pay a fair and full price for a restored car than get a great deal on an unrestored car.

All the best,

Rob

[David Booth]

Lots of people who should know, say that the smartest way to acquire one of these cars is to buy a restored version, paying for the restoration and getting the car for free. Sound advice, provided you can afford it. Not everyone can, myself included.

Thanks for the reminder of the location of the sale info on 3009GT. I had come across it as well. Looks gorgeous. This particular example is the exterior color my cab was when it left Maranello 43 years ago, and the color it'll be come next August, unless I chicken out long about February and re-shoot it the red that can be seen in my Owner's Gallery pictures here on Tom's site.

As for 3009GT, that's the most money I've seen asked for an SII cab since about '92. If the seller can get it, either from you or someone else, bless his little avaricious heart.

The comment about paying big bucks to be dusted by a Miata is curious coming from someone who frequents a website dedicated to VINTAGE automobiles. Why not extend the same "logic" to, oh I don't know... a '34 Duesenberg. Or a Type 37 Bugatti. Or a Springfield Rolls-Royce. Or the 8C2900B Alfa that I stood in the tent at Pebble Beach a couple of years ago and watched sell for a breathtaking four million bucks, give or take a few hundred thousand. If being able to stomp all comers is high on your list, I'd suggest you're in the wrong spot, talking to the wrong people.

Rob, if you're in it for the ability to go straight out and enjoy your new car, you're dead right: a fair price on a quality restoration is absolutely the way to go. But those of us that have gone the long way around the barn to be able to drive something old have added something to the experience of owning one of these cars (any vintage car, actually). I guess I'd characterize it as "involvement". It's not for everybody. But like a Hawaiian sunset, if you haven't experienced it, I won't try to describe it for you.

Quit worrying about making a financial mistake and go buy the car that pulls your pucker string. Who gives a shit what we think?

[Yale]

Just so you know, though I have heard good things about the fellow who is Car Classic, I have also seen him list, with photos, a car that was for sale at another dealer, in another country, on another continent, and was already sold! Best, Yale

[sagaponack]

carclassic is positioning himself as a buyer's broker. So he is not representing the seller. Who knows if the seller even knows he is listing it. I will try to find 3009 another way once the dollar/euro becomes reasonable which, at this rate, may be never.