Daytona Carb problems

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DWR46
Posts: 621
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by DWR46 »

Steve: You will have to do some general carb cleaning to remove the abrasive after you have flattened the carb bases, so you cannot hurt anything by making sure the internal passages are open.
You can leave the Bypass Lock Nuts loose after you have set the screw. However you may need to just snug the nut to make sure the screw does not move after it is set.
Idle fuel pressure: Anthing above 3 psi and less than 5 psi is fine. ideal would be in the 3-4 psi range.
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Thanx again, Dyke. Might be a few weeks before I get to this. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
afwrench
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Location: upstate new york

Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by afwrench »

Hi Steve, if you have not already done this; run the car and duplicate the slow down to stall and immediately turn off the key.Now either pump the carbs while looking down the throats or take the tops off to see if ,1 no fuel in one or more carbs or 2, too much fuel. It seems you are describing the car slowly running out of gas at idle. Will it idle at an RPM slightly higher than normal? Are the throttle blades cracked open enough to maintain idle? All choke levers all the way open? Sorry if I am rehashing old news.Good luck ,Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB
afwrench
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by afwrench »

Hi Steve, forgot one thing. Not to sound to simplistic but twice in my wrenching years I fixed seemingly impossible problems with a fresh battery. Are you getting a full charge while running 14 volts or so ? Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB
250GT
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by 250GT »

Steve,
I can feel with you about a car that dont do the way you like it to do, I also cannot live with that
It spoils my whole day or week :terrible
Please check you harness that goes to fuse#1 (distributers) #2( regulator )and fuse#4 (fuelpumps).
the fact that the boxes are moved to the trunk cannot be bad , but that means to me the harness was changed.
AFIAK the org boxes were under the bonnet see page 125 at you manual or at:

http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_Down ... 201970.pdf

The fact that the PPI at P. Ottis took place, implicate to me, that it must has run properly.
The WORM must be somewhere else ,not a carb. problem imo

take a break
that problem will be solved.
the Daytona is the first nice road F- car with some TORGUE.

BEST

C.

P.S
Forget that army of relays those have nothing to do with this problem
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Steve Meltzer
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Steve Meltzer »

WOW! thanx guys for the ideas and advice. I'm pretty sure the battery and charging system are OK. The car starts easily and I ran the headlights (while playing around with the car last nite) and they open and close on the battery power alone. Also, the ammeter shows it charging at about 14V, which I think is correct.

As noted, the car dies a slow death and did so again while I was preparing to try to tune the carbs Friday nite. The car had fresh gasoline and the Jaz filter just before the fuel log. It does feel like it's running out of fuel. I resolved to pull the carbs as I believe that the idle circuits have debris and crap in them, as have the fuel bowls on EVERY occasion I have take the tops off the carbs. The fuel pressure, checked again on Friday nite was 3.5 PSI, even as the car lost power. I shut the car down at that point, as had been suggested.

Today I pulled the tops off of the carbs in preparation for removing the whole #%*&%&%# bunch of them. Again, there was debris in the bowls, with the same kind of shiny metal shavings and shards as before! The fuel level in each was about half way up the bowl and equal in all. I pulled the Jaz filer and it's surgically clean, not a shard of debris anywhere. I ran 2.5 gallons of fuel, vis a vis the fuel pump, into a clean white bucket (tank to hose just before the fuel log)...a couple of specs of dirt, no metal stuff, minimal. (I had done this experiment before: same results)

Thinking that the fuel log was spitting out metal, I pulled it off the hose, but was unable to prove much either way. Some rusty looking places, but no obvious metal filings. Could this be the culprit?? Hard to explain debris in the bowls with a clean sintered bronze filter just in front of it. I do believe that the car idles poorly because the idle circuits are at least partially obstructed +/- mild vacuum leak from the bases.

Thank you all for your patience, thoughts and advice. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
afwrench
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by afwrench »

Hi Steve, this may seem simplistic but does the car act the same with the air cleaner off or on? Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Steve Meltzer »

yes, tho' the air cleaner is off now and has been for awhile. I've pulled 4/6 carbs and all of them so far have been warped at the base. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
mark
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by mark »

Check with Mike Pierce, some webers can be ruined by machining the base, if that's what you have in mind.
69 365 gt 2+2, 12659
98 M3, 02 Porsche 996
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Steve Meltzer
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Well, it's been every bit of three months for me to find enough time to solve this problem, but I pulled all of the DCNs off the car, took them mostly apart (not the throttle blades), soaked and planed out the warpage everywhere that would hold still long enough to meet the sandpaper. I also put in a 100 micron fuel filter, relatively inconspicuously against the firewall. I don't want to claim a complete victory here, but after three separate prolonged episodes, the car seems to idle just the way it should. Now, I think I'm ready to synch the carbs and set the idle mix (I just turned the screws out 1 1/2 turns to have a starting point.) Thanks everyone for your great help and a special shout out to the ever generous and knowledgeable Dyke Ridgley. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
John Se
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Location: Phoenix

Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by John Se »

On old used cars like yours :), when you run the tanks down low then you really start to pick up the crud from the bottom where it is no longer diluted with lots of fuel. An old carI had ran like crap everytime the tank got down to about 10-20%. Clog the filter, change, then fill it up, runs fine. And if you filled the tank when it was down to fumes you it just flodded crud into the system.

I have a spare holly fuel pump that I have used along with a couple of gas bottles to drain,filter and refill old tanks, flushing 30-40 gallons(10 gallons filtered multiple times through bottles) through the whole system until it runs clear all the way to the bottom of the tank can sometimes help. Either way I would want to flush out the tanks and lines really well.

check out the holy daytona at f-chat, the crossover pipe was a coroded mess, and probably putting alot of crud in the system.
Steve Meltzer
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Thanx for the info John. Could be that the tank got low and there's a bunch of **** in there. i'll try to keep the tank more near the half way mark and continue to run that big filter. I really don't want to pull the tank and those lines. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
John Se
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 3:32 pm
Location: Phoenix

Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by John Se »

Pulling tanks looks like pulling the whole back of the car apart, and to be avoided. Maybe you could flush through the transfer line between tanks. I would set up a system to pull fuel from the bottom of that crossover tube, filter it, pump into a jug, then pull from the jug, filter again and pump into the tank, for a few hours. Try and stir up some turbulence in the fuel to dislodge the crud.
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Steve Meltzer »

OK, here’s the denouement. Once I got the car to finally idle well I was able to set the synch and idle mix. The car ran well up to about 3K, then it seemed to starve for fuel and ran poorly, as it had since I got it more than a year ago. Pulled the tops off the carbs yet again, and of course there was crap in the bowls....some shiny metallic stuff as there had always been and some amorphous dark junk as well.

As I mentioned in another post, I took a fiberoptic scope from my office (the only advantage being a gynecologist has in the Ferrari world!) and looked down the fuel rails. They were gross: scaly and probably shedding the chrome I was seeing in the bowls. I cleaned them by spinning some brass brushes on a drill. Rechecked them with the scope....dramatically better, nearly perfect. Replaced every hose in the car, except the expensive yellow one between the tank and the first canister filter. (All Aeroquip lines, except a Russell aluminum line traversing the rocker panel.)

With the lines replaced, I decided to take a chance on some bigger main jets in the carbs, and was all set to change the “135 jets” for “140”. Much to my surprise, when I pulled the main jets, they were size “120”!! Mea culpa....Dyke Ridgley had told me, when all this started, to confirm that all of the jets, emulsion tubes, etc were within spec. I promise, I really did this, but must have forgotten to check the mains, or, I assumed they were OK, as all of the other parts were correct. At any rate, I put in the correct “135” jets and buttoned her up. Along the road (yeah, yeah, pun intended!), I double checked the ignition timing and advances; all were in spec. New plugs and wires, too.

I’ve driven the car twice now and it runs awesome. Idles great and is smooth to 6K RPMs. Very cool. Thank you all very much for your suggestions and ideas, but a special thank you to the most patient man in the world, Dyke Ridgley, who never gave up on me and always answered my (often inane) e-mails. sdm
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Bad Dogg
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Re: Daytona Carb problems

Post by Bad Dogg »

Fantastic news! So when do we get to go for a ride???

H
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