Transmission and Differential Oil

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by tyang »

Hi Lowell,

Yes, the Trans oil 250 wt oil is the stuff I've used. Yes, it's VERY thick, but that's the weight Ferrari recommended in the diffs. 140 would probably work fine. I've noticed a couple of these rear axles leaking from the cover plate flange where there is no gasket. It's a true PITA to reseal, so a lighter weight oil may cause this leak to become worse. On the flip side, maybe with 140 weight, you might get a little better gas mileage!

Use whatever makes you feel comfortable in the transmission. The properties of the synthetics where it is less viscous when cold is probably what helps 2nd gear engage better than regular gear oil, but if you have a good second gear synchro, or have patience to wait until the gear oil warms up, use regular oil. I believe most modern gear oil will do the job. These transmissions were not using any exotic materials inside their boxes, unlike modern transmissions where the use of the wrong gear oil can have catastrophic effects.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by 330GT »

tyang wrote:Hi Lowell,

Yes, the Trans oil 250 wt oil is the stuff I've used. Yes, it's VERY thick, but that's the weight Ferrari recommended in the diffs. ...Tom
I put the Penrite 250 in my diff. It is so thick that I used a gallon milk carton I cut apart with a tight fitting PVC hose leading to the filler hole. Then I put the correct amount into the carton with it propped above the diff. I left it overnight and it had all gone into the diff by morning!

One issue with using synthetic oils is that they are more slippery and will leak more. I haven't bit the bullet on my transmission yet. Instead, I just skip second gear for the first couple of miles until the box has warmed up some.

As additional information, the original 330 GT owner's manual specifies Shell Spirax EP 250 (1.8 liters). The addendum for the 5 speed model specifies Shell S 6721 A (2.5 liters) with no mention of the weight.

A late 330 GT owner tried to obtain more information about the S 6721 A oil. He tried several sources and eventually Ferrari Customer Service replied with:
Ferrari wrote:Thank you for contacting us.

As regards your kind request, we would like to inform you that after carrying out our relevant checks with our competent department, Ferrari Classiche, we can confirm you that the lubricant originally recommended for the gear was Shell Spirax EP 90. At the present time Shell Spirax W 80 or else Agip Rotra SAE 80-90 are used in substitution.

Moreover, the lubrificant used for transmission is SPIRAX EP140.

We remain at your complete disposal for any further information or assistance you may need.

Kind regards,

Ferrari Customer Care
I think that 90wt oil would leak out of most of the differentials without a rebuild.

BTW, the owner's manual's for both 4 speed/OD and 5 speed transmissions specified 90wt which conflicts with the reply above. It is almost like they got the weights mixed up.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
8339
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:44 am
Location: Reisterstown, MD
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by 8339 »

For what it's worth I'll throw this out there. Be careful if you are using GL-5 EP(extreme Pressure) gear oils in transmissions. GL-5 gear oils are produced with sulphur compunds which etch steel components to fill the microscopic pits on gear faces under pressure so the oil adds additional lubrication. This is fine in a hypoid type differential but can be detrimental to a transmssion that uses yellow metals such as bronze or brass. Fortunately to the best of my knowledge most vintage Ferraris use bearings and not bushings to support the gears on the transmission shafts, unlike Alfas that use a bushing. GL-5 will in fact attack yellow metals. Most Ferrari transmissions use a Porsche type syncrho, the purpose of the synchro is to act as a brake to engage the engagement teeth on the gear from the sliding hub, too slippery an oil may not work as well in allowing the synchro to perform as it was intended. From personal experience I don't necessarily recommend using a lot of newer oils in vintage transmissions and differentials.
Lowell
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:40 am
Location: Santa Fe, NM

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by Lowell »

8339 wrote:For what it's worth I'll throw this out there. Be careful if you are using GL-5 EP(extreme Pressure) gear oils in transmissions. GL-5 gear oils are produced with sulphur compunds which etch steel components to fill the microscopic pits on gear faces under pressure so the oil adds additional lubrication. This is fine in a hypoid type differential but can be detrimental to a transmssion that uses yellow metals such as bronze or brass. Fortunately to the best of my knowledge most vintage Ferraris use bearings and not bushings to support the gears on the transmission shafts, unlike Alfas that use a bushing. GL-5 will in fact attack yellow metals. Most Ferrari transmissions use a Porsche type syncrho, the purpose of the synchro is to act as a brake to engage the engagement teeth on the gear from the sliding hub, too slippery an oil may not work as well in allowing the synchro to perform as it was intended. From personal experience I don't necessarily recommend using a lot of newer oils in vintage transmissions and differentials.
I would rather not take any chances. So what do folks recommend for 80/90 weight transmission oil?
Lowell Brown
1966 Gold 330 2+2 Series II
DWR46
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by DWR46 »

In the early 1970s, I researched Shell S6721A. It was a "factory fill" made up for Ferrari that contained Spirex 90 (which is a EP Hypoid oil) and a Limited-Slip additive. This was developed for the 275 transaxle and saved the factory from having to purchase and add a limited-slip additive separately.
tinbender
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:38 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by tinbender »

Tom,
What are you using in the transaxle cars like 330GTC.
Regards,
Terry Phillips
Regards, Terry Phillips 330GTC #9411
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by tyang »

tinbender wrote:Tom,
What are you using in the transaxle cars like 330GTC.
Regards,
Terry Phillips
MT90 as well. A limited slip additive may be needed.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
IslandGuy
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:06 pm

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by IslandGuy »

Anyone have a US source for the Penrite 250? The place in Texas mentioned appears to no longer be in business. I've contacted Penrite several looking for a US source; still no reply. I guess there's always eBay.
Thanks
DWR46
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by DWR46 »

Restoration Supply Company, Escondido, CA (800-306-7008) has all the Penrite oils. Lots of great, weird stuff in their catalog.
IslandGuy
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:06 pm

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by IslandGuy »

Thank you. Most interesting catalog, indeed!
Steve Meltzer
Posts: 982
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by Steve Meltzer »

I was so inspired by this discussion that I decided to change the fluid in the TA's of my Daytonas. Two questions: 1) Am I correct that a bottle of the Redlne limited slip "modifier" is the LSD additive I want? and B) Is there a good, fast and clean way to get this viscous stuff in the hole? Saw an add for the Plew's Lubrimatic, but it only pumps 4cc per stroke, not a huge amout. Thoughts? thanx. steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
DWR46
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by DWR46 »

Steve: Just mix the additive with the gear oil and pump it in.
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 4060
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by tyang »

Hi Steve,

There's a neat tool that I use I bought from summit racing:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w1145/overview/
I don't know how well it would work moving the 250 wt gear oil into the earlier axles, but will work great with the watery Redline synthetic stuff.

Tom
Steve Meltzer wrote:I was so inspired by this discussion that I decided to change the fluid in the TA's of my Daytonas. Two questions: 1) Am I correct that a bottle of the Redlne limited slip "modifier" is the LSD additive I want? and B) Is there a good, fast and clean way to get this viscous stuff in the hole? Saw an add for the Plew's Lubrimatic, but it only pumps 4cc per stroke, not a huge amout. Thoughts? thanx. steve
'63 330 America #5053
Steve Meltzer
Posts: 982
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by Steve Meltzer »

Thanx so much Tom. i found what I think is a similar pump (looks the same) made by Great Neck for a bit less, with free shipping from Amazon (always my go to place for just about everything, including many car parts, and, I dont't have to get off of my lazy derriere!!). For the less viscous stuff should work well. Too bad there's not one that could (for cheap money) be run off of a compressor....then it would be even easier. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Lowell
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:40 am
Location: Santa Fe, NM

Re: Transmission and Differential Oil

Post by Lowell »

tyang wrote:Hi Steve,

There's a neat tool that I use I bought from summit racing:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w1145/overview/
I don't know how well it would work moving the 250 wt gear oil into the earlier axles, but will work great with the watery Redline synthetic stuff.

Tom
Steve Meltzer wrote:I was so inspired by this discussion that I decided to change the fluid in the TA's of my Daytonas. Two questions: 1) Am I correct that a bottle of the Redlne limited slip "modifier" is the LSD additive I want? and B) Is there a good, fast and clean way to get this viscous stuff in the hole? Saw an add for the Plew's Lubrimatic, but it only pumps 4cc per stroke, not a huge amout. Thoughts? thanx. steve
There is a similar tool at Auto Zone or maybe other similar places.
Lowell Brown
1966 Gold 330 2+2 Series II
Post Reply