Sheehan's new 330 GTS Listing

sagaponack · Post by **sagaponack** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 8:08 pm

What do you guys think of this car, condition, and price?

Seems beautiful.

http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/FE- ... main.shtml

Best,

Rob

David Booth · Post by **David Booth** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:57 am

Certainly looks nice, but then, the 275 GTS you said needed $40k of work didn't look horrible either. So I guess we can't really tell you much based solely on the pictures.

Have you seen the car in person? If so, please report.

I've always sort of felt that the 330GTC and GTS typified the high point of the "classic" Ferrari 12s in terms of size and design. But that's me. What about you?

As far as price, SCM's price guide lists a top number for the GTS of $245k. I'm not sure the days have come again, and in fact they may never return at all. But the axiom about "..you didn't pay too much for your Vintage Ferrari, you simply bought too soon.." may still apply to some models.

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:10 pm

This same 330 GTS was sold by Mr.Sheehan about 2 yrs ago. The asking price then was about $245K (if I recall correctly). The car sold within several days of listing, so I suspect the selling price was not much off the asking #. Here we are now, 2 yrs. later, with what I think is a stronger market. If this car is really #1 condition with low mileage on the rebuild, I'd say his price is not far off. As an example, most Daytonas sell for $90K to $110K, but the best examples sell for $150K. Likewise, the best examples of other models sell for a premium. Besides, a 209 engine, torque tube, transaxle, 2-seat convertible, 100 made (how many still exist?), epitomizing the 1960"s ferrari sports car. Very attractive, if you have the money.
Jim

sagaponack · Post by **sagaponack** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:33 am

I have not seen the car in person. I do not have the money, but that may not stop me from buying it.

If the car was blue or dark grey---there would be no issue. I always hoped I would never own a red ferrari. But how long will it take until a 1 condition 330gts comes on the market again?

I think there is a blue photo on this website but I wouldn't even know who to contact to bid it.

Thanks again for the thoughts.

Rob

Dr. Ian Levy · Post by **Dr. Ian Levy** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:05 pm

Hello Rob
Interesting to read that not having the money is not a deterrent to owning the Ferrari that you want or need.
I just wonder how many of us are afflicted by the same condition & has it been reported as an infectious disease?
This car appears to be beautiful condition & it looks great in red.
It may a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Regards
Ian Levy
Manchester
UK

Matt F · Post by **Matt F** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:19 pm

I've never had any dealings with M Sheehan, but there are two things that make me distrust him.

1) He wrote the following article that tries to justify a higher price to paint Ferraris versus Mercedes:
http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0006.html
The article starts off accurately enough, but ends up with this foolish statement:
"If the Ferrari to be painted is a Dino, we can add about 50% to the labor and materials. For a Daytona we have to double the bill. Been there, done that. I know the drill."
There's absolutely nothing about a Daytona that would require double the labor and materials. This is an outright lie in order to justify otherwise un-justifiable prices.

2) He is offering the s/n 07359 1966 275 GTS that belonged to Raquel Welch for $157,500. This same car was sold at the Oct 31 to Nov 2 Mecum auction for $119,000, not including auction premiums. What accounts for the difference? According to M Sheehan's website:
"This very original Spyder has just been fitted with a new stainless steel exhaust from Time Valve, had the bumpers rechromed, the distributors and carbs done, and a good tune. The service was app $8700 “in house”. The body and paint were also polished and detailed." That doesn't seem to justify the markup to me.

Like I've said, I've never dealt with him in any way, but take these two observations for what they're worth.

--Matt

fest · Post by **fest** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:47 pm

seen this one:

http://www.rpmvt.com/ForSale.html#F330

not widely advertised as far as I know...

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:38 am

I've dealt with Mr. Sheehan. He's fair, but of course, wants to make a good deal. He insists on independent inspections to verify the cars condition/pedigree. Bottom line, you have to be an informed shopper, regardless of who you deal with. Truly nice examples will command high prices,due to the expense of putting these autos in #1 condition. BTW, Mr. Sheehan charges the buyer (?seller, also) a commission.
Jim

David Booth · Post by **David Booth** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:54 am

Don't misunderstand me here -- I'm not championing anyone. I've never dealt with Mike Sheehan and I doubt he could pick me out of a crowd of two people. But you make some pretty strong statements there, Matt, that to me seem out of line on a forum like this one -- particularly since they're not based on direct experience with the person you're so casually trashing. We know Mike Sheehan's qualifications to make the statements he does. May we know yours?

As far as what he's asking for this or any other car, I'd remind you that selling cars is what the guy does for a living. Presuming that Mr. Sheehan doesn't personally own this vehicle, then the owner has told him what he wants to get for the car, Mike has added what he wants for his trouble, and probably built in some negotiating room. It's the well-known Free Enterprise system in action. I don't work for free, and I doubt that anyone else on this forum does either. What's the prob?

Dr. Ian Levy · Post by **Dr. Ian Levy** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:41 am

Seems like Matt is giving Mike Sheehan a bashing when what Sheehan is saying is also the opinion this side of the pond.
My 365 GTC4 was recently repainted together with some repair work & replacement of door bottoms, boot edges & other rusty bits.
I know the paint shop well & I was invited to view any additional work that was needed. I did all the trim removal & stripped the paint back to the metal myself.
Removing the trim was a real pain & I have not put it back yet. I can imagine it being a really costly job to remove & replace the trim alone
The cost was much more than I envisaged but I got the job I wanted. Interestingly the guy in the shop had recentl restored the body on a Daytona & told me exactly the same story as Mike Sheehan is telling.
He said the Daytona cost almost double what I paid but the shop did all the work
Maybe what Mike Sheehan says is nearer fact than fiction
Regards
Ian Levy
UK

Art S. · Post by **Art S.** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:48 am

Hi,

330 GTS 9481 is for sale in NJ at The Stable www.thestableltd.com. I saw the car when I poped in recently and it looks quite nice but I didn't poke too deeply. Comes with both tops. Asking price is $229K

On another note, it's nice to see Peter Markowski's shop is on the web. Peter and his family are real nice people. He owned SN 030 MT, the first Lempardi engined Ferrari since he was 15.

Art S. 7919

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:36 pm

The stable's 330 GTS has 46K miles on it, and indeed looks pretty. A few minor items are not stock/correct in the pics. The add implies maintenance, but no rebuild, for the life of the car. If this car is offered @ $229K, what should a thoroughly restored car with very few miles be offered at? I suggest the upper $200K's, at least. I think the 330 GTS is somewhat undervalued, probably due to the body styling lacking some degree of voluptuousness, compare to say a 275GTB. But the secret of the 330 GTS's (and GTC's) is the successful combination of engine, transaxle, suspension and brakes. The car makes for a great drive.
Jim

Deane · Post by **Deane** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:15 am

You can't beat in in-person inspection, hopefully with an experienced 330 owner alongside. It's hard to evaluate the details of a car's condition from the pictures, other than the obvious stuff.

Jim: Sorry I didn't get a chance to chat longer with you at the Concorso. I hope you're enjoying your 330GTS as much as I am mine. After five years of owning one, I still can't believe what a hoot it is to drive!

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:45 am

Deane,
It certainly has wonderful sounds and smells!
Jim

sagaponack · Post by **sagaponack** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:29 am

Deanne/Jim/Other 330GTS owners----

What would you look for during an inspection beyond the typical checks that apply to all cars. What specific to this model? Are there certain "correct" items that are tough to get that most 330's don't have?
(e.g., correct in dash radio, exhausts)

Thanks

Rob