Yale wrote:Hey Tom, did you make white Teflon bushings for my springs like you have on your car? Am I just looking at the old and not the new bushings in your photos? (From Berlin, after driving on the autobahn at 110mph in a new rented bmw and have people blow by me I can see the reason for a new Ferrari or Porsche for that matter).
Thanks Tom and Kerry, I made a system like Sicard's; i.e., a pair of sleeves welded onto a pair of long studs, with the exception that I used a piece of 2x3 pine I had laying around. The local metal shop was closed for the holidays and (being obsessive as I am) I couldn't wait. I went carefully and slowly with the timber, expecting it to pop a crackle under pressure, but it did not at all.
Tom, the trick you tried with Yale's springs I also did with my Lusso's. I got HDPE in tube form from McMaster Carr and reused the center sleeves of the perished bushings. Question, how did you fit them all together, did you use an arbor press?
John Vardanian wrote:Thanks Tom and Kerry, I made a system like Sicard's; i.e., a pair of sleeves welded onto a pair of long studs, with the exception that I used a piece of 2x3 pine I had laying around. The local metal shop was closed for the holidays and (being obsessive as I am) I couldn't wait. I went carefully and slowly with the timber, expecting it to pop a crackle under pressure, but it did not at all.
Tom, the trick you tried with Yale's springs I also did with my Lusso's. I got HDPE in tube form from McMaster Carr and reused the center sleeves of the perished bushings. Question, how did you fit them all together, did you use an arbor press?
john
Yes, you have to press them in with a press to make sure you have a very snug fit. Don't forget there is side plate bushing material that is a couple of mm thick on each side of the bushing. The center sleeve protrudes this distance beyond the width of the spring.
Here's a picture of my suspension when I did it years ago with teflon side pieces.
Here's a picture for Lowell to see how badly out of alignment the springs can be when the bushing is worn.
The "pink" or "white" nylon side thrust washers are readily available from GT Car Parts and Rutland. We just bought some for the 330LM. They were reasonably priced.
My PF coupe does not have these Teflon spacers, instead it has small metal washers that are as big in OD as the inner sleeve of the rubber bush (see the circled washers-there should be eight,I lost one but found it later). I'd appreciate feedback from those who know as I do not want to put things back without these Teflon bushings if in fact they belong there.
John: Not sure if we are talking about the same items, but the cars originally had the white or pink nylon thrust washer. You can see them in the parts catalogs. I know that the nylon washers were used by the 508D and 508E chassis, and I am not sure what the washer #92997 is made of that appears in the early 250 Parts Catalog, but this catalog predates the 508D chassis (probably 508B). I would use the nylon washers if they fit, as they help quiet the ride and make things smoother.
Hi Dyke, thanks, I think we are talking about the same thing. We are talking about whatever it is that goes between the eye of the spring and the shackle. I am looking at a drawing from the R.F. Merritt book (Page 236) and I see no non-metallic washer such as the white or pink, but I do see smaller washer "rondella" that look more like the ones in my picture, above. Mind you, this drawing is really for a 508B.
John,
If made out of nylon or steel doesn't matter.
they fullfill the same purpose.
Metal "rondella" are correct for Ferrari EU,Bo,El, PF serie 1&2
Well I have never seen nylon side thrust washers on above org cars myself.
they probebly change it the mid-or early 60th.
They keep the rubber in the silent blocks together at torgue movements.
After spending two days to install the rear axle and suspension, I am sitting here tonight wondering how I can solve my shackle flip problem, as discussed in Kerry’s site (and the previous page of this thread by Tom). I am thinking that there is a special sequence that the factory followed or maybe a special tool they used to prevent the flip. This is my sequence of assembly:
1. Raise the axle up into the car with a jack.
2. Secure the axle in place by attaching the two hang cables.
3. Connect the four radius arms.
4. Connect the drive shaft.
5. Connect the lever shocks to the axle.
6. Install the leaf springs.
7. Push the springs up one at a time with a floor jack so they meet the axle tube and then bolt on the bottom plate with the four bolts.
In doing this last step, the shackles flip over center. What am I doing wrong?
You are doing the same job right now as I currently do. You are a little bit ahead, because just today I put together my half shafts to the diff housing after refurbishing.
When disassembling I first put out the axle to the side. then as the last I removed the leave springs. When assembling I try to keep this order. But it will work as well in your order.
About your shackle problem I only can imagine (but I am not sure) that the leave springs are put in mirror inverted or 180 degrees rotated. The center bolt Which holds the whole package together is not symetric to the ends. The radius arms determine the axle position and the leaf spring position because there is only one recessed pocket where the hexagon nut head of the center bolt can go in. If the leaf spring is assembled 180degrees rotated, then the position is about 30mm wrong. This might cause the wrong shackle position.
As I am German my may be I do not use always the correct terms. I am sorry about that, but I hope you can understand what I mean.
John Vardanian wrote:After spending two days to install the rear axle and suspension, I am sitting here tonight wondering how I can solve my shackle flip problem, as discussed in Kerry’s site (and the previous page of this thread by Tom). I am thinking that there is a special sequence that the factory followed or maybe a special tool they used to prevent the flip. This is my sequence of assembly:
1. Raise the axle up into the car with a jack.
2. Secure the axle in place by attaching the two hang cables.
3. Connect the four radius arms.
4. Connect the drive shaft.
5. Connect the lever shocks to the axle.
6. Install the leaf springs.
7. Push the springs up one at a time with a floor jack so they meet the axle tube and then bolt on the bottom plate with the four bolts.
In doing this last step, the shackles flip over center. What am I doing wrong?
john
I think your limiting straps are set too long. With the spring tool installed, and the arch of the leafs flattened, you should be able to line up the shackle bolts, and get everything loosely installed. The spring will not go over center if the overall length is longer than the bolt hole centers of the suspension mounts. Don't worry about the lower radius arms, or the shocks. They can stay out until you get the spring in the correct position. Concentrate on the leaf spring and the axle limiting straps.
The trick is to install the spring with an arc that is the same as it would be if things were at steady-state and the car was resting on the ground on its own tires. As Tom said, (and I wished he had said it sooner so I wouldn't have to learn it on my own, the hard way), you want to expand the spring so it goes on the car nearly flat. My mistake was that I would flatten the spring just enough so the shackle holes would be 46.5 inches from one another, which is the distance between the two mounting studs.
Thank you all who read commiserated. I am very happy to have this forum and be part of it.
I guess one more thing... so, putting the flattened spring on its mounting points is one thing, but keeping it that way while you are connecting it to the axle tubes (with the four bolts) is another. I'd be interested in knowing how you do that part, Tom. I'll post a picture this weekend of how I managed.
