3777GT SII or SIII ?

[Besters]

#3777GT will be auctioned at Monaco in Mai 14 Anamera reports:

http://barchetta.mediacenter.studioline ... ir=2083207

Series III starts with #4093GT the register reports.

Anyhow, the front of #3777GT is a SIII front ?

Is this correct ?

[T308]

Mid Series 2 serial number with many, perhaps all, Series 3 features. There are several cars sprinkled throughout the production run with some or all elements of the later cars.

[Besters]

But YOUR 3921 has a S1/S2 Front. So 3777 is about 70 Cars earlier but the Front of the later Series ?

I agree with you, that f.e. the Taillights or the centerconsole have been "mixed" between the Seriese, but the complete Front ???

[T308]

Yes, there are cars as early as 2713 that have the S3 front end.

http://www.fantasyjunction.com/cars/142 ... totype-V12

[Besters]

Sorry, but S1 Interior with SIII Front looks like "making one out of two".

I bet, 2713 has no original SIII Front. Engine 3225 ? Front 3225 and Chassis 2713 ? I don't know.

[T308]

2713GT has long been identified as a Prototype (as is the right hand drive 2711GT). Hil Raub's Red Book lists it as a Prototype in block letters which usually indicated information taken directly from the build sheets. The Certificate of origin was issued in Sept 1961 to Ferrari SpA and assigned the plate number MO 69170. Marcel Massini has the original PRA documents for this car when it was exported in 1964. Here is a photo of the car wearing those plates. Thus I do not think it's a grafted S3 nose on a S1 car.

2173.jpg (198.14 KiB) Viewed 12877 times

I nearly bought the car in 2002 when I owned GT Motors, but as it was a mismatch I passed. Had I know that the engine still existed and would come for sale I would have bought the car for the princely sum of $42,000. The motor was advertised in the FML for $35,000.

Perhaps there's more info on the car now and I hope Tom Wilson who runs the GTE Register chimes in.

[Besters]

OK, Thank You for this interesting information.

I didn't know, that prototypes where built so early in the runnig series, I thought, the prototypes where started about #3800-3900

[T308]

Early in the series but only 16 months between the delivery of 2913 in September 1962 and 4093 the first S3 in early January 1963. Assuming the time required to test the changes in practical use, the production lead time of PF and the administrative requirements (homologation and other documentation) it really isn't a lot of time.

Very interesting to see how the company handled the transition from low numbers to serial production and the attempts to continuously improve the product.

[2x2+2]

Perhaps, as the current owner of 2713, I can chip in! Bought the car in 2011 after it had crossed the Atlantic 3 times (see my recent articles about the car in FML). As the car was owned by the factory for its first two years it seems that it was used by them as a development hack. It definitely started as a Series 1 as evidenced by the dashboard, the early seat back adjusters and the smaller front anti-roll bar. However, it does have the later rear suspension with the additional coil springs and the later O/D unit with the oil separated from that in the gearbox. The factory made a real bodge job of cutting a hole in the transmission tunnel to gain access to the O/D filler. If anyone is interested I will post pictures later. The most obvious differences are, of course, the front and rear lights. The rears look like proper Series 3 units but close inspection of the front shows some slight differences to the Series 3 units but I've yet to see the car actually alongside a series 3 to make the exact comparison.
As to the engine, I think the story is well known. So it has the engine from another GTE; so what! I've had no response from the people who were advertising engine 2713 as to where it went. If anyone knows its whereabouts I'd be very interested. We have a newly re-built engine to swap!!

[2x2+2]

And another thing.....2713 was registered in Sept 1961 not 1962.
Interesting too that both Antoine Prunet and Hans Tanner/ Doug Nye mis-identify 2713 in the captions to the early photograph of 2713 shown above that appears in their learned tomes on Ferraris!

[kare]

I didn't know, that prototypes where built so early in the runnig series, I thought, the prototypes where started about #3800-3900

Wihout a doubt 2713 was changed much later. S.3 was clearly developed together with a GTL.

The nose really is slightly different, which has always convinced me of this car really having served as a design study. The nose was optimized for production by moving lights closer so the stamped part containing all those complicated contours became smaller.

[Besters]

hammered at 275k EUR , total 310k EUR , 427k USD.

[tyang]

hammered at 275k EUR , total 310k EUR , 427k USD.

So if we go by normal auction commissions (can someone confirm these with this auction?) of 10% buyers and 10% sellers premiums, The buyer paid: $512,400 USD and seller got: $384,300 USD.

The auction houses are making a killing these days! I prefer private sales, thank you very much.

Tom

[Besters]

http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1065752

[Terry Gardiner]

Does anyone know who restored 3777? That's an impressive set of photos on the RM site.