Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

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Zanny1
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Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Zanny1 »

I am new to the Ferrari 250 GTE, but not new to owning vintage Ferraris. Following a search of this website, I have a few questions and appreciate your response.
1. Where can I source a rebuild kit for my heater valve? Are they worth rebuilding, or is a manual valve a better choice? My lever and cable assembly works perfectly, so I'd prefer to retain originality.
2. I cannot see any fluid in my steering box. Is it filled right to the top? Anyone use the 85-140W GL-5 for this? I know the owner's book says 140 wt, however no GL rating is specified and as you know, 140 is not easy to locate.
3. After changing the oil & filters yesterday, I took the car for a 1 hour drive (remote area 120-130 km/hr). Outside temp was 82 deg F, oil temp 70 deg C water temp 80 deg C. Everything worked just fine. After slowing down to enter a small town, the motor quit. I rolled into a parking lot, and popped the hood, suspecting vapor lock. However, fuel (sight glass) bowl was full and accel pumps gave a good "squirt" of fuel. Tried to start the car..... it would fire and then die. Waited 15 minutes, it started right up and drove the remaining 15 miles home without incident. Any thoughts?
As always, thanks in advance.
Mike
1962 GTE 3177
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
DWR46
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by DWR46 »

1.To rebuild the heater valve, all you need is a new diaphragm, the usual suspects have them.

2. I would use straight 140wt, as almost all the steering boxes leak to some extent. Restoration Supply Company has it, along with lots of other weird oils. 800-306-7008

3. Could be a coil failure, as after cooling off, it started right up. Though it would be unusual for both coils to fail at the same time. When you turned on the electric fuel pump, did it build up pressure or just run rapidly without slowing down. Make sure your fuel tank is vented. We never relied on the tank vent hose, and drilled a small hole in the gas cap. Never had a tank vent problem again.
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Zanny1
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Zanny1 »

Thanks DWR.
I doubt both coils would fail at the same time, although stranger things have happened with these cars. I did remove the gas cap to check for vacuum lock, but that was OK. My electric fuel pump just "thunks" when turned on. When I got home, I removed one of the banjo fittings to check the fuel pump. Thunk - no gas flow. So it apparently isn't working. I'll have a look at it tomorrow to see if the points are stuck. Also want to get under the dash and check the ignition wires, although that probably isn't a solution.
Will get the parts as you described - thanks for the tip.
Mike
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
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Yale
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Yale »

What is wrong with the cars vent hose Dyke? I used to have vapor lock problems that the electric fuel pump solved until I had electric fuel pump problems. But you know that is the story of my life as a Ferrari owner.
Ex - 1964 330GT #6097
1963 Abarth Monomille
1970 Porsche 911S
1974 BMW 2002turbo
DWR46
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by DWR46 »

Yale: I do not have a good response to your question about the tank vent systems. On 250,275 and 330 cars, we have solved fuel supply problems by drilling a small (1/16 in) hole in the gas tank cap. It appears that sometimes, the regular tank vent system does not work as intended, so the very small hole in the cap will always let air into the tank, to keep it at atmospheric pressure, thus letting the pumps draw fuel.
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Steve Meltzer »

There's a nice dialogue in the archives, entitled "Leaking Heat Control Valve", July 3, 2013. The one thing that helped me the most was John Vardanian's analogy of the (diaphragm) seal/disc = shoe/foot. I did use some black silicone, but slipping the diaphragm (seal) OVER the disc helped me to understand the process immensely. steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
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Zanny1
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Zanny1 »

Thanks Steve.
Heater valve issue solved.... I am embarrassed to admit that the cable was not fully closing the valve. Diaphragm was just fine. Disassembled and cleaned everything, bench tested, then upon installation noted that the operating cable wasn't pulling the lever fully closed. Now if I could figure out where/how the valve was mounted, as the assy just sits above the steering box but is not affixed to anything. Internet pictures aren't good enough to show details.
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Steve Meltzer »

do you want me to shoot you some pictures of the setup on my GTC? s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
SLM
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by SLM »

In response to #3:
I had the same problem and it turned out to be the old yellow fuel lines were swelling internally restricting gas flow under the heat. Ran fine when cold and lost power when hot. Replaced the lines and all is perfect. As dyke mentioned what happens when the aux pump is on?I was able to turn on the electric pump when I had this problem and the car would run fine which meant the fuel needed was not enough .
62 250GTE S/N 3733
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sam231
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by sam231 »

Mike,

Nice to see you made a quick turnaround from the C4.

Cheers,

Sam
'72 365 GTC/4 # 14953; ex-owner 330 GT 2+2 # 8025 :>(
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Zanny1
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Zanny1 »

sam231 wrote:Mike,

Nice to see you made a quick turnaround from the C4.

Cheers,

Sam
Thanks, Sam. I had that car 12 years and thought I would never sell it. A shop in California had the car on and off for 5-1/2 years. They rebuilt the engine 3 times, the gearbox twice, and made such a mess of things that the car became a nightmare. The engine was finally outsourced and sorted, but having driven the car less than 1500 miles during that 5-1/2 year period and doing constant battle with the shop ruined the entire experience. The final straw was having the car delivered to my new residence in Arizona. The car wouldn't go into reverse, the hood had been installed poorly which damaged the leading edge (this after JUST having the hood painted and the leading edge repaired after the shop had ruined it during the first engine rebuild), dings and scratches all over the car, front bumper whacked and pushed out of contour with the sheet metal..... the list goes on and on.
I fixed most everything myself and sold the car. End of story.
The 250 is, of course, a completely different beast. Certainly a lot easier to work on!
Best-
Mike
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
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sam231
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by sam231 »

Mike,
I followed your travails on the C/4 website going back and forth with Ian (who I met funnily enough at the first party Tom Yang Party in CT in 2007) and others. I am no mechanic so tend to stay quiet in those discussions except when I have first hand knowledge about an issue. Sorry the C/4 experience was so terrible. Enjoy the 250 GTE - it is a great car(I had the honor of driving Tom Yang's America a few years ago on a twisty CT road and it was loads of fun).
Cheers,
Sam
'72 365 GTC/4 # 14953; ex-owner 330 GT 2+2 # 8025 :>(
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Zanny1
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Zanny1 »

Well guys, it isn't vapor lock.
Went to see Bill Preston today (of GTE Registry fame), and on the way back the car just died. No fuel to the carbs. Electric pump doesn't work (again) and I suspect the mechanical pump has problems. Tried to restart - no luck. Squirted a little fuel down the carb throats, and it started. Found that if I kept the RPM's around 3K in third gear, it would run. So I limped home. Any higher speed, or taller gear, it would sputter and die. So either my fuel filter is plugged up, or the mechanical pump is barely working.

Will tear into things and keep y'all posted.
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
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tyang
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by tyang »

Zanny1 wrote:Well guys, it isn't vapor lock.
Went to see Bill Preston today (of GTE Registry fame), and on the way back the car just died. No fuel to the carbs. Electric pump doesn't work (again) and I suspect the mechanical pump has problems. Tried to restart - no luck. Squirted a little fuel down the carb throats, and it started. Found that if I kept the RPM's around 3K in third gear, it would run. So I limped home. Any higher speed, or taller gear, it would sputter and die. So either my fuel filter is plugged up, or the mechanical pump is barely working.

Will tear into things and keep y'all posted.
Hi Mike,

If you can plug up one side of the fuel rail at a time, you can narrow down the source of your problem. Here is a step by step process:
1. disconnect the yellow line at the back of the fuel rail, and get a container to catch the fuel. With the key on, run the electric fuel pump. see if you are getting sufficient flow. I guess when your car stalled this last time, the electric pump didn't help? If there isn't good flow, you're going to have to rebuild the pump.
2. If you have decent flow from the electric fuel pump, reconnect it to the back of the fuel rail.
3. disconnect the front of the fuel rail, and find something to plug up the fuel rail.
4. plumb the loose end of the yellow fuel line to a container, and start the engine with the electric fuel pump running.
5. you should see a steady pulsing of fuel coming from the mechanical pump. increase the revs and the flow should increase.

You could be suffering from several failures all adding up to insufficient fuel to the carbs.

Your'e going to be dealing with a lot of fuel and dangerous vapors. Take all the necessary precautions, and proceed at your own risk!!!

Good luck!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
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Zanny1
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Re: Questions: Heater valve, steering box fluid, vapor lock?

Post by Zanny1 »

Steve Meltzer wrote:do you want me to shoot you some pictures of the setup on my GTC? s
Yes, if it is similar to the GTE.
Thanks very much for the offer to help-
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
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