250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

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tim
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by tim »

Greetings… I wouldn't use any measurement to the body, especially the wheel arches. As we have seen before, they can be all over the park. I would measure from the ground (generally a reliable reference) up to a suspension bolt on the chassis like the front trailing arm bolt. If they are off side to side, then you have a spring related issue.

Tim
1964 330GT 5769 -the big yellow taxi 61&66 Morgan +4's Daimler SP250 Turner 950S and some other dull stuff plus a brand Mercedes C300 4matic
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Zanny1
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by Zanny1 »

tim wrote:Greetings… I wouldn't use any measurement to the body, especially the wheel arches. As we have seen before, they can be all over the park. I would measure from the ground (generally a reliable reference) up to a suspension bolt on the chassis like the front trailing arm bolt. If they are off side to side, then you have a spring related issue.

Tim
Measurements from ground to suspension components are equal on both sides. My concern is the 'rake' from front to back. Clearly the front should not be 1-1/2" higher than the back, as measured to the fender arches (for a relative measurement). In looking at pictures of other GTE's, it appears most cars are level or slightly lower in the front, when viewed from the side. The rear suspension is going to come out for a rebuild, however I will be trying to identify why the front stance is so tall. Perhaps when the front end was rebuilt, incorrect springs were installed. From what I can tell looking at the front a-arms, the suspension is not adjustable and cannot be lowered.
Mike
1971 365 GTC4.... on my second one
Timo
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by Timo »

Zanny1 wrote:
tim wrote:Greetings… I wouldn't use any measurement to the body, especially the wheel arches. As we have seen before, they can be all over the park. I would measure from the ground (generally a reliable reference) up to a suspension bolt on the chassis like the front trailing arm bolt. If they are off side to side, then you have a spring related issue.

Tim
Perhaps when the front end was rebuilt, incorrect springs were installed. From what I can tell looking at the front a-arms, the suspension is not adjustable and cannot be lowered.
I don't have references to GTE per se, but Daytona "service manual", for example, provides "Factory/O.E.M." specs for both front and rear suspension static "ride height", which in general, for all cars, is about mid-point of their respective full vertical travel and should be established/set prior to any other suspension or steering related adjustments, if O.E.M. type front-end alignments are sought.
Aforementioned "ride height" specs usually are based on "normally" loaded vehicle, i.e. Daytona w/2 (grown) persons, all fluids (coolant, fuel and oil) full, spare/tools, no luggage.
Are such specs available in GTE manuals ?
I'd like to note that I've been investigating and collecting data for (quite common) Daytona front suspension/"ride height" related problems for years now in attempts to come up with easily repeatable solution to fix them with out forcing owners to resort to "aftermarket" components and during these years I'm yet to see a example that would come anywhere near to factory specs, especially in the front (where most of the problems present themselves), even after full rebuild, including all new wearing parts and shocks/springs, etc.
Timo
DWR46
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by DWR46 »

Timo: There was no shop manual for the 250 GTE, nor a parts book. GTE's do have a dedicated Owners Manual.
250GT
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by 250GT »

DWR46 wrote:Timo: There was no shop manual for the 250 GTE, nor a parts book. GTE's do have a dedicated Owners Manual.
Dyke,
there is a PF manual the for PF-coupe and GTE parts produced by PF and parts they used from other manufactors .
When you read this PDF below we see explosion sides with numbers this manual for F-parts MUST have been made once
I think.( scroll down to see this explosion sides.)

http://www.ferrari250gte.com/i/resource ... nzione.pdf

best

C.
250GT
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by 250GT »

Sample front suspension

C.
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Timo
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by Timo »

Thank you Mr. R. and C.,
for your replies, but I was merely trying to describe to Zanny1 a way to determine if his GTE front (or rear) suspension is at proper level and importance of it, since I believe this (or both) should be established as "baseline" before any attempts to adjust or modify anything related to suspension height or steering/wheel alignment is carried out.
Apparently, factory didn't bother supplying such suspension specs on earlier models, but I assume they at least provided some for front-end alignment ?
Other than "eye balling" or "feel", how do guys usually establish proper "ride height" on these earlier models ? Has anyone ever taken time to figure out, recorded and/or shared any baseline recommendations ? Other than Daytona, I've studied and collected similar data for several (non-Ferrari) vintage cars over the years and seems the only way I've been able get "some" compensation for these efforts is in the form of more work than I can handle...
Timo
DWR46
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by DWR46 »

Timo: You will find this amusing, but the "manual" you asked me to look at on the web was produced mainly by my friend Jim Riff, with some additions by MYSELF. Jim did the initial work in the early 1970s, and then we collaborated together with supplemental articles for the Ferrari Market Letter. Later , Sue and I incorporated all the FML articles into a "Tech Tips Book" which we produced and sold through the Market Letter. A number of reprints of this work have taken place over the ensuing years. So yes, I am very familiar with the document, as I wrote parts of it.
DWR46
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by DWR46 »

Timo: Just to clarify, some parts of the item on the web are sourced from a FACTORY booklet about the 250 GTE. This was produced in Italian, and was primarily a maintenance guide for dealers. It gave what was required at various mileages and some general technical specifications. The sections of the document about valve adjustment, fuses, maintenance instructions, etc. came from us.
Timo
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by Timo »

DWR46 wrote:Timo: You will find this amusing, but the "manual" you asked me to look at on the web was produced mainly by my friend Jim Riff, with some additions by MYSELF. Jim did the initial work in the early 1970s, and then we collaborated together with supplemental articles for the Ferrari Market Letter. Later , Sue and I incorporated all the FML articles into a "Tech Tips Book" which we produced and sold through the Market Letter. A number of reprints of this work have taken place over the ensuing years. So yes, I am very familiar with the document, as I wrote parts of it.
:)
Timo
abrent
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by abrent »

So I figured "while we are all talking about rear springs" I would ask a question.

At the top of the leaf spring assembly there is two leaf's that appear to be "intertwined".
There seems to be no way to easily separate the two and paint them and reassemble with the
correct rubber separator. Unless you bend over the two U shaped brackets that extend down and
keep the whole spring somewhat together. Is this correct, these U shaped brackets are Hot Rivited to
the spring leaf so I don't see that removing the bracket is a good idea.
Do most people just bend them?

We are talking about a series II GTE without the coil spring.
abrent
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by abrent »

Hi, another rear leaf spring question. Apparently the 4mm thick material (4mm x 50mm) is made from unobtainium here in Australia. I need one new main spring, I have a guy who has the correct mandrel to bend the eye, arch and re-assemble but I need to find a source for the leaf spring itself. I a perfect world I need two lengths of about 6 foot each so I can make two new main leaf's.
Any ideas?
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tyang
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by tyang »

abrent wrote:Hi, another rear leaf spring question. Apparently the 4mm thick material (4mm x 50mm) is made from unobtainium here in Australia. I need one new main spring, I have a guy who has the correct mandrel to bend the eye, arch and re-assemble but I need to find a source for the leaf spring itself. I a perfect world I need two lengths of about 6 foot each so I can make two new main leaf's.
Any ideas?
Hi Andrew,

There have to be spring fabricators somewhere in the States or around the world that has the spring steel you need. I can assist in shipping to you if you find one in the States.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
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David Booth
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Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by David Booth »

I had 3-4 broken leaves on the Cab's springs and the local spring shop who does work on Jay Leno's cars, said the material to make a new set was unobtainable. In the end, I just had them make up a new set using thicker material but fewer leaves. They did their calculations based on the car's weight. Waiting for the fuel tank rebuild to put the car back on the suspension, so can't tell yet what the ride height will look like, but the shop said that if it needs to be adjusted, they'll do it at no charge. Of course, getting the springs out and back in again won't be a picnic, even with my "spring tamer" tool.
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
tim
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Location: sacramento, ca

Re: 250GTE Rear Springs and Shocks

Post by tim »

Andrew, try Dumbrell Springs in Newcastle on the eastern coast. This comes from one of my Morgan friends in Terragil.

Tim
1964 330GT 5769 -the big yellow taxi 61&66 Morgan +4's Daimler SP250 Turner 950S and some other dull stuff plus a brand Mercedes C300 4matic
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