original fuel hose ferrules

[Jumprun]

I thought I'd share a technique I used to re-use the original fuel line ferrules on the new larger hoses. I know that you can buy new larger ferrules and cut them down but I liked the idea of using the original thicker wall steel ones.

I made some pins to resize them by pressing into the ID, I used a smaller progressive pin to make it easier for the final sizing. I put a good lead on the end and polished the pins. I used grease and my vise to push them in. Once pushed in the pins were not too difficult to drive out, I used a punch plate, but anything with an appropriate hole in it to support the ferrule when you drive it out will work. I had the brainstorm last night and experimented with an old socket that was the right size so I decided to make some nice pins to make it easier. The 10 degree lead I put on the pins helped them go in straight but it's easy to get the pin cocked if not careful. Once I made the pins it took about 1.5 hours to do all 12 ferrules.

The pin sizes I used created a bare slip fit over the new hose, I wonder if I should have gone bigger?

progressive pins

Ferule resize 001.jpg (93.56 KiB) Viewed 11306 times

Use grease inside the ferrule. The 1/2/3 block you see with my name stamped on was made by my Dad for me 36 years ago when I started my toolmaker apprenticeship with him.

Ferule resize 004.jpg (77.37 KiB) Viewed 11306 times

ready to cad plate

Ferule resize 006.jpg (86.14 KiB) Viewed 11306 times

Best Regards,
Tom in SoCal

[John Vardanian]

Hi Tom, I think that's great idea. I think I'll try your technique. Can you explain this more:

"I used a smaller progressive pin to make it easier for the final sizing. I put a good lead on the end and polished the pins."

john

[Jumprun]

Sure John, look at the first picture showing the pins and ferrules, the final inside diameter (ID) I wanted for the ferrule for the 8mm hose was .668" but using a pin of this finish size first is a bit much to expand the ferrule in one shot so I used a smaller .658 pin first to make it easier to push the final pin in. My first attempt was with the full size pin and it was much too difficult push in keep straight.
The lead is a just a shallow short taper on the end of the pin to help guide and ease entry for expansion. Polishing the pin is important too as well as greasing it to prevent galling.

This is similar to how the ferrules were originally made, you can still see the marks on the outside where they were forced into the die.

[John Vardanian]

Thanks Tom, understood. Would you be able to use a one-shot pin if you heated the ferrules to a dim glow?

john

[Timo]

Tom,
Would you care to estimate the total amount of time, including R & D of the pins, this little project took ?

[Jumprun]

Thanks Tom, understood. Would you be able to use a one-shot pin if you heated the ferrules to a dim glow?

john

I didn't even try doing it in one shot as the undersize pin took some care to manually align and push in, It might be possible but heating things up would require some way other than your hands to hold and guide the operation. The first pin expanded the ferrule about .015" the second pin, as you can see from my photo opened it up another .010" Of course my finish sizing was based on the actual hose that was in my hands, other hose might be different.

[Jumprun]

Tom,
Would you care to estimate the total amount of time, including R & D of the pins, this little project took ?

Oh I don't know..maybe an hour to do the experiment with an old socket wrench, then another hour or so to make the pins, then another 1.5 to do the actual expansion on 12 ferrules, then another .5 to sip the victory beer.
Now that I went to all the trouble I'll need to buy another old Ferrari that needs new fuel hoses, unfortunately the ridicules run up in prices make this very challenging.

[Timo]

Tom,
Would you care to estimate the total amount of time, including R & D of the pins, this little project took ?

Oh I don't know..maybe an hour to do the experiment with an old socket wrench, then another hour or so to make the pins, then another 1.5 to do the actual expansion on 12 ferrules, then another .5 to sip the victory beer.
Now that I went to all the trouble I'll need to buy another old Ferrari that needs new fuel hoses, unfortunately the ridicules run up in prices make this very challenging.

Thanks for taking time to offer your "guesstimate". I, as an enthusiast who (too often?) embarks upon similar journeys, can truly appreciate your effort, but as a restoration professional, I also see how well this can demonstrate the "flip side" (i.e. cost effectiveness) of such endeavors, especially if provided as a "service" to a paying customer(s). Based on somewhat modest, but professional shop rate averages for the 3.5 to 4 hours of labor involved, one could conclude that "restoration" of each ferrule came to be at minimum of $25.00 to $35.00 each and this, of course, does not yet include the time for actual efforts to remove from or replace them to the "yellow" hose itself... or if so desired, prepare and refinish them with something prior to re-assembly... or the cost of material for the pins, etc... I'd say that beer was well earned !
And if one is to repeat same effort for rest of the approximately 100000 - 150000 parts most post war automobiles, regardless of make/model/vintage, are comprised of, the time and costs involved with something that can be considered a "complete restoration" should start to become clear. ?

[Jumprun]

Timo, here's my opinion, I'm nearly certain that I could do a set of ferrules in 1/2 the time spent the first time, and if I made a holding cup and did it under a hand press I could probably do one set in half an hour. It probably makes no sense to go through this hassle unless you are obsessed with originality or need to save the original plating.

Tom in Socal

[John Vardanian]

Tom, do the curled ends of the nuts deform at all from the press? Thanks.

john

[Jumprun]

Tom, do the curled ends of the nuts deform at all from the press? Thanks.

john

John, I think you are referring to the radius...yes it did ever so slightly flatten the end but it didn't seem to deform the radius, I suppose one could work it out with another small pin but it didn't seem worth it. Look at he last picture, they look ok yes?

I closely examined the originals before I operated on them and they were all over the place quality-wise, different sizes, uneven leading edges, inconsistent end hole, etc, all normal for what it is.

I figured I had nothing to lose with my experiment because they would just end up in old parts box.

[John Vardanian]

Thanks Tom, i am definitely going to try tour trick. Thanks for sharing it.

john

[Jimmyr]

One final tip when assembling the ends; be sure to add some Loctite 518 to the screw end when assembling. This will help prevent any future drips.

[Jumprun]

Thanks Tom, i am definitely going to try tour trick. Thanks for sharing it.

john

John, If you like I will be happy to loan you the pins, but you should measure the actual hose you are going to use to make sure my final sizing pin will be big enough. The final size for my hoses only allowed a bare slip fit. Use a dial (digital for you young guys) caliper to lightly measure the OD of your new hose and I can advise.

-Tom in SoCal

[Timo]

Timo, here's my opinion, I'm nearly certain that I could do a set of ferrules in 1/2 the time spent the first time, and if I made a holding cup and did it under a hand press I could probably do one set in half an hour. It probably makes no sense to go through this hassle unless you are obsessed with originality or need to save the original plating.

Tom in Socal

Tom,

I have no doubts of your ability to create further equipment to speed up the process.
My point was merely to illustrate in general terms the amount of labor and general costs involved with any and all aspects of restoration of a vintage automobiles. Your wonderful little project here provided an opportunity to show the extent (cost/labor) of an attempt to retain the original detail(s) versus purchasing a new ferrules for few $'s each and if same approach is followed throughout the rest of the 100000+ parts most cars are made of, it isn't until then, IMO, it can be considered "completely" or "fully" restored, yet these phrases are so (too ?) easily thrown around among most (road going) vintage cars out there.

I'm myself also "obsessed" with retaining originality as much as possible, but as a professional providing services to others, I'm unfortunately some times "forced" to consider cost effectiveness of various services I provide, occasionally have to walk a fine line and try to focus on the "big picture" to achieve overall results both I and the client can be pleased with and proud of.

P.S. Would you, by chance, have any interest of doing similar small machining projects, if I had a need ?
I do some myself and I have a friend (whom I do pay) to do some. He's works mainly with large CNC production stuff for medical equipment producer and doesn't have easy access to manual tooling or time. He's made some "Scaglietti" door hinges and few R & D prototype items that I'm some day hoping to develop into marketable products.