found some mystery parts

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lukek
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:34 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

found some mystery parts

Post by lukek »

I have been cleaning the garage and found some parts deep, deep on the lower shelf....

I have a fuel filler rubber flap, an aftermarket Borrani knock-off removal tool, an original fan with some pulleys and a shaft housing. I think this was from when my 250 GTE got converted to electric fans by Johannes. I forgot to include those items with my car, and I do not know how to contact the buyer.

Anybody can confirm what this stuff is? There is a 250 SWB fan on ebay for $3K, but the person selling it might be under influence.
:0

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Ex 1963 Ferrari 250 GTE, 99 Modena 360, 11 Maserati QPorte S, 08 merc gl550, 67 Cadillac Coupe DeVille Convertible, 2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale S, 1991 Ducati 907i.e.
John250gte
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:34 am

Re: found some mystery parts

Post by John250gte »

Lukek,

I would be interested in purchasing the rubber fuel filler flap and the makeshift knock off tool from you if you are interested in selling the items. I just purchased a 1960 250 GTE Series I about a month ago now and am busy trying to piece together the few items that I know I am missing. My car was repainted and I am missing the rubber fuel filler flap and I do not have a tool kit with the car. Until I get the wire wheels refinished, the makeshift knock-off removal tool that you have would also come in very handy!

If you are interested, please feel free to email me directly at johnbrunelle@shaw.ca and I can either call you back (if you provide your contact info), or I will give you my phone number(s).

Talk to you soon!

John
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Tom Wilson
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by Tom Wilson »

Mike Kumor of Seaport Mold and Casting in Toledo Ohio made that knock-off tool. I bought one and it works really well. Get yourself a large torque wrench if you buy it. I don't know if Mike makes these anymore, but they are very well made.
Tom Wilson - Series III 250 GTE, SN 4247 GT
Curator of the 250 GTE Register
http://www.250GTE.com
Edward 96GTS
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Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:21 pm

Re: found some mystery parts

Post by Edward 96GTS »

i think mike kumor passed yrs ago.
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treue
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Location: Oklahoma

Knock-off Socket

Post by treue »

Luke,

I had a socket for three-wing knock off nuts (as found holding Borranis onto 330s) that looked just like Mike Kumar’s socket, only his is cast from brass or bronze. Mine was made by Stainless Steel Brake Company from a large (3”?) ¾-sq drive socket normally used on a semi-truck or -trailer. It has the same T-slots in every other facet of the six-sided socket. I added leather and copper padding to protect the wings on the knock off nuts. I read the Riot Act to the buyer of 9129 that he would go to a not-very-nice place if he even thought about using a lead hammer on 9129’s knock offs. The padded SSBC socket did a very good job of installing or removing the knock-offs on 9129.

I looked at SSBC’s website, just now, and could not find the socket advertised. I recall it being a pet project of the company’s owner who owned an older Ferrari with Borranis. If anyone is interested perhaps a call to SSBC would yield one of these sockets.

Tom
330 Wheel Nut Socket, 7-1-15.jpg
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Tom Treue
67 330GT 2+2, No. 9129 (former owner)
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michaelbalk330
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by michaelbalk330 »

I still like using my lead hammer but here is another source for knockoff tool: http://knockoffspinnertool.com
Michael
1967 330GT #9693
1960 190SL
1967 Ducati 350 Sebring #04783
1959 Moto Guzzi Galletto #GNR93
1973 450SL
1988 Mercedes 300CE 5 spd
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michaelbalk330
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by michaelbalk330 »

sorry this is the site I was thinking of, for our 3 ear spinners:
http://www.oldtimertools.de/shop/media/content/en.pdf
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Michael
1967 330GT #9693
1960 190SL
1967 Ducati 350 Sebring #04783
1959 Moto Guzzi Galletto #GNR93
1973 450SL
1988 Mercedes 300CE 5 spd
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treue
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 8:49 am
Location: Oklahoma

Using a Lead Hammer

Post by treue »

Michael,

Would you rather have this-
330 Knock-off, 7-2-15.jpg
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Or this-
250 Knock-off, 7-2-15.jpg
250 Knock-off, 7-2-15.jpg (76.49 KiB) Viewed 13901 times
Just sayin'.

Tom
Tom Treue
67 330GT 2+2, No. 9129 (former owner)
BobA
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by BobA »

Hi Tom: Are you sure that damage came from using a lead hammer? I have had two different 250's since 1970 and have never come close to dinging the knockoffs when using a lead hammer on a steel nut. The socket, which was not an option in the 70's , certainly makes the job easier, but I think someone used a steel hammer to do that type of damage. Bob
DWR46
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by DWR46 »

I have used the sockets in the past, however I have gone back to dead blow hammers. It is very difficult to get the wheel tight enough using a socket. If you are doing any high performance driving I have concerns using a socket, even at 450 ft/lbs torque. I have found the plastic faced, 3 lb. dead blow hammer will adequately tighten a wheel for street driving, but for racing, we still use a lead hammer.
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treue
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by treue »

Bob and Dyke,

1. No, I am not certain that the damage was done with a lead hammer. I don’t know why anyone would use a lead hammer much less a steel hammer knowing that the kind of damage shown in the picture might occur. Also, what about aiming for the wing and, instead, hitting the fender, the wheel rim or the spokes, all possible with ANY hammer?

2. This is the kit as received from SSBC and including modifications to the socket by me:
330 SSBC Knock-off System, 7-2-15.jpg
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I would get the nut as tight as my arms could with the socket and extension, then place the extension in a horizontal position and stand on the end of the extension. My 190 pounds tightened the nut to just about the right torque. I then made sure with the supplied torque wrench.

Sorry Luke, I didn't mean to hijack the post.

Tom
Tom Treue
67 330GT 2+2, No. 9129 (former owner)
DWR46
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by DWR46 »

Tom: I have a socket set EXACTLY like that. Still can easily get the knock off tighter with a dead blow hammer. Of course, I have had cars lose wheels in racing, so I am pretty careful. We have to use nitrogen bottles and 750 lb/ft. on our Porsche 935.
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tyang
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by tyang »

I use a knock off hammer all the time, and believe the damage Tom T showed is from using something other than a lead hammer.

Another thing to be aware of is when applying high torque to the front wheels with cars that do not have steering locks, the wrench and cause the wheel to turn into the fender allowing the wrench handle to hit the fender. Have someone inside the car hold the steering wheel when torquing down the front wheels.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
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treue
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by treue »

Guys,

Whether the car uses a centerlock or lug bolts or lug nuts, after I get the wheel back on the hub and the fasteners installed, I torque the fasteners to the maximum I can with the wheel off the ground (about 30 ft-lbs), then I jack the car down onto the ground and then, with the car in gear, apply the proper torque to the fasteners. Unless the car has far less than 400 pounds on the wheel, I’ve never had one spin or try to steer.

Since the centerlock hubs all have splines on them and the nuts are threaded in the hand that tends to keep them tight (right hand thread on the right side and left on the left), I am curious how the nuts can possibly work loose (unless they are just hand tight). Also, wouldn’t racing centerlock hubs have safety pins or some anti-rotation means through them?

Tom
Tom Treue
67 330GT 2+2, No. 9129 (former owner)
DWR46
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Re: found some mystery parts

Post by DWR46 »

Tom: Vintage Ferrari race cars have knockoffs just like your car. The Rudge Whitworth hub was designed to "in theory" tighten as the car was driven, using acceleration torque. In that era, the brakes were not very good and could not develop much braking torque. Today, even with "vintage" race tires, the brakes are much better and it is possible to unwind a knock off that is not tight.

All centerlock hubs DO NOT have splines. The Halibrand style hub is a "pin drive" that is much stronger than the splines, but it uses a simple taper to lock the knock off to the wheel and this style is even more prone to unwinding. This style is used on Cobras, and Indy cars of that era.

The safety pins are just there to make you feel good. I would never trust them to hold a wheel on a car.
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