330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

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Pied-Noir
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Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:34 pm

330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by Pied-Noir »

I had my M/C resleeved in SS by a reputable outfit here in SoCal almost 2 years ago and the M/C is now leaking. The culprit is the donut at the push-rod opening. Of course, it could be that the opening is flared but that I'll check when I pull out the M/C. The donuts were sourced from one of the usual providers of fine Ferrari parts. However, has anyone had issues with the donuts not lasting? We're talking 2 years usage!

Just wondering.

Thanks.
tim
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Location: sacramento, ca

Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by tim »

Greetings… Mine are showing some sign of leakage after 35 years. Master was sleeved then and been there ever since.

Tim
1964 330GT 5769 -the big yellow taxi 61&66 Morgan +4's Daimler SP250 Turner 950S and some other dull stuff plus a brand Mercedes C300 4matic
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tyang
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by tyang »

Pied-Noir wrote:I had my M/C resleeved in SS by a reputable outfit here in SoCal almost 2 years ago and the M/C is now leaking. The culprit is the donut at the push-rod opening. Of course, it could be that the opening is flared but that I'll check when I pull out the M/C. The donuts were sourced from one of the usual providers of fine Ferrari parts. However, has anyone had issues with the donuts not lasting? We're talking 2 years usage!

Just wondering.

Thanks.
I've been having my share of problems with brakes lately, so I feel your pain! I think the seal at the pushrod side is different from the doughnut seals used on the pressure seals internally. I don't know how readily available this seal is.

Castrol LMA (the recommended brake fluid for girling and dunplop seals) is NLA, so I'm watching to see if we have seal failures from using regular DOT 3/4 fluid.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
BobA
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by BobA »

According to a Moss Motors blog, Castrol claims to have renamed Castrol LMA to Castrol Dot 4 Brake Fluid. The product is the same.
Pied-Noir
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:34 pm

Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by Pied-Noir »

Thank you for taking the time to respond,

Tim, Just like you, I"ve had cars which have gone the 30+ years on the M/C without ever leaking. That's why I was wondering if the donuts are now
made from some cheap junk material and folks are having issues!

Tom, I've made calls to the usual suspects regarding the end donut being different but everyone is quoting TAV.32 item # 10 - FIAT - Anello flottante
qty 4. So the donuts would be the same, but that doesn't mean that at one point in time the end donut may not have been different. This M/C is
unique to the S1 and it's quite possble that the parts book was never updated.

BobA, Thar's what I'm using, according to the container it exceeds DOT 3 & 4 DOT 4 Series and is Synthetic B.F.

The fun has only begun!

Yves
Pied-Noir
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by Pied-Noir »

UPDATE.

Finally removed the M/C and took it apart. The cylinder's Stainless Steel sleeve I.D. is 1.002 inch all the way through and no low spots. I then measured the donuts that were installed 2 years ago and these are the O.Ds for the four donuts; 1.001, 1.001, 1.002 and 1.004, no wonder I have a leaker. The measurements (six for each donut) were taken with dry and clean donuts and I did not average out the readings. I now have to figure out what is really supposed to be the original O.D. of the donut, who has it in stock and have the sleeve removed and a new one installed honed to 1.000 or 0.999 (that may be easier).

Any thoughts??? Thank you in advance for your inputs.

Yves
Pied-Noir
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS// UPDATE

Post by Pied-Noir »

Well here goes .

Had the M/C checked by the folks (Upland, Calif.) who sleeved it in S/S back in 2007. The verdict was that it was fine (bore at 1.005) and that it did not need to be re-sleeved and needed a good honing. That said and done, the M/C was reassembled with 1.014 donuts (bought 20 to get 4 the same size) and all was fine for 185 miles - NO leaks. Car sat for 2 weeks and the front brake fluid reservoir was almost empty. The rear one had NOT leaked one drop - level in reservoir was right on the mark. The fluid has leaked AGAIN from the back of the M/C - pushrod end of it, right onto the garage floor.

I'm running out of ideas and this is getting OLD rather fast. Am I the only one with a series 1 with this kind of M/C headaches?

Any ideas and encouragements are welcomed!!!

Thank you

Yves
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tyang
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by tyang »

Hi Yves,

I don't know if I can offer you any words of wisdom, but you're not the only one with SI 330 Brake issues. I had a SI car that sat at my shop for nearly a year while I chased down M/C problems. I miraculously found a replacement cylinder to replace one that had a slight distortion in the sleeve. This would cause a soft pedal and loss of pressure only halfway down the stroke of the brake actuation. I had the second M/C carefully resleeved, and it now works OK. This rare setup for SI 330s really stinks!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Pied-Noir
Posts: 38
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by Pied-Noir »

tyang wrote:Hi Yves,

I don't know if I can offer you any words of wisdom, but you're not the only one with SI 330 Brake issues. I had a SI car that sat at my shop for nearly a year while I chased down M/C problems. I miraculously found a replacement cylinder to replace one that had a slight distortion in the sleeve. This would cause a soft pedal and loss of pressure only halfway down the stroke of the brake actuation. I had the second M/C carefully resleeved, and it now works OK. This rare setup for SI 330s really stinks!

Tom
Thanks Tom,

It would seem that I don't have any choice but to re-sleeve the M/C even though I was told by the tech that there is NOTHING wrong with the M/C. Peace of mind - maybe. By-the-way Tom, you were at his shop a few months ago regarding S1 boosters.

Quite a while back I contacted Fred P. and he was going to check his stock of old parts. Unfortunately, time escaped our grasp and he passed away - Requiescat in Pace. I also tracked down a brand new M/C that was insistantly being represented as one fits all (64-67) and turned out to be for a S2, and there was the one for the Lancia - same configuration but wrong bore. Other than that still looking. The search for good donuts is also on - AGAIN.

Like you said this "really stinks", and I add "big time". Updates down the road...

Yves
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tyang
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Re: 330GT-S1 M/C DONUTS

Post by tyang »

Pied-Noir wrote:
tyang wrote:Hi Yves,

I don't know if I can offer you any words of wisdom, but you're not the only one with SI 330 Brake issues. I had a SI car that sat at my shop for nearly a year while I chased down M/C problems. I miraculously found a replacement cylinder to replace one that had a slight distortion in the sleeve. This would cause a soft pedal and loss of pressure only halfway down the stroke of the brake actuation. I had the second M/C carefully resleeved, and it now works OK. This rare setup for SI 330s really stinks!

Tom
Thanks Tom,

It would seem that I don't have any choice but to re-sleeve the M/C even though I was told by the tech that there is NOTHING wrong with the M/C. Peace of mind - maybe. By-the-way Tom, you were at his shop a few months ago regarding S1 boosters.

Quite a while back I contacted Fred P. and he was going to check his stock of old parts. Unfortunately, time escaped our grasp and he passed away - Requiescat in Pace. I also tracked down a brand new M/C that was insistantly being represented as one fits all (64-67) and turned out to be for a S2, and there was the one for the Lancia - same configuration but wrong bore. Other than that still looking. The search for good donuts is also on - AGAIN.

Like you said this "really stinks", and I add "big time". Updates down the road...

Yves
Hi Yves,

Be aware there is a difference between "Karps Power Brake Service," "RK Sleeving," and recently another change of hands. Ron Karp, who started both companies sold "Karp Power Brake Service" to his Son-in-Law Jeff Watts, and kept "RK Sleeving." Jeff would sub out most of the sleeving part of his power brake business back to Ron. This has been going on for the last several years, but recently, Ron sold "RK Sleeving" to another gentleman and Ron has been staying on until he completely retires. When dealing with any of these companies, you have to know who did the work and will do the actual work. Back when everything was one entity, the quality was better, the prices were fair, and service was stellar. I have seen the changes in the last several years, and am still watching the final changeover with RK Sleeving. I've been trying my best to find alternatives to brake repairs, even resulting to learning myself but it's been a struggle.

My problem took months to solve and even fooled Ron Karp before we narrowed down the problem and took a closer look at the M/C.

Good Luck!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
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