Removing knock off wheels

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Steve Meltzer
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Removing knock off wheels

Post by Steve Meltzer »

I won't put any of us through the usual litany of which tool works best, but here's a question I don't recall being addressed (however, as a friend of mine said, "I have a good memory .....short, but good"). Maybe it was. But....

I was always told that when removing wheels from a car, especially when using a knock off hammer to strike the spinner, the car shouud be firmly planted on the ground. Never to be done on jack stands or a lift, as the forces might damage the suspension parts. True or automotive leged? thanx. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
cory
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by cory »

Hi Steve
In theory leaving the car on the ground while striking the knock offs lessens the chance of possible flat spots on the wheels needle bearings. True or not I can't attest too but I habit I practice....anyone else??
Cory
DWR46
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by DWR46 »

If anything would be damaged, it would be the wheel bearings. Always do the final tightening with the car on the ground.
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by Steve Meltzer »

All of this makes sense, tho' i was hoping that I could remove them while the car was on the lift...gettin' old and lazy! Back to the large socket, 3/4 ratchet and long "cheater" leverage bar. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
John Vardanian
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by John Vardanian »

Seem with the car firmly planted you're fighting the opposite forces that come from the tire. I tighten with the wheel off the ground just enough to seat the hub, then the final tighten with the tire firmly planted and the handbrake on.

john
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tyang
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by tyang »

Steve Meltzer wrote:All of this makes sense, tho' i was hoping that I could remove them while the car was on the lift...gettin' old and lazy! Back to the large socket, 3/4 ratchet and long "cheater" leverage bar. s
Steve, you are getting lazy! Think how we feel when we have to take a car off jack stands when we forget to loosen the knock offs. I've done this so many times, I just loosen the knock off before I jack the car up whether or not I plan to work on the wheels!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
mdempsey
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by mdempsey »

A very crude but effective method I used involved an 18" or so 2" x 4" piece of pine. I place the pine on the spinner and then strike it with the mallet. It worked very well and allowed me to swing with force away from the fender. Never damaged a spinner with even a scratch.
Lowell
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by Lowell »

I certainly would not try to remove the spinors with the car on a jack or a jack stand.

If you have the car on a "drive in" left there is no difference between the car on the lift or on the ground.
Sometimes with all the wheels on the lift it is nice to be able to raise it so that you reduce the
times that you must lean over

I place chucks in front of and behind the wheel and often on other wheels as well. I find that the spinors
are hard to remove if they have been on the for a year or so. I don't know if this is the result of some chemical
process sticking things together or the effect of the screw threads tightening --- the left and right-hand car side
have threads such that the road torque on the screws tighten them. I use about 10 - 15% less torque than the
recommended value when I install the wheels. To take them off there is a lot more torque required, and it is
often difficult to keep the car from moving.

Now comes the part of my story that that may elicit catcalls from everyone. I use a large bronze casting that
fits snugly on the spinor ears. It surfaces are covered by that stuff that you can paint or spray on that acts just
like a rubber coating. This gadget had a rather sloppy square hole for a 3/4" drive. I had a short 3/4" drive
extension brazed into that sloppy hole. Now may come the cat calls. I initially use a 3/4" air powered driver that goes
bang, bang, bang, that some times continues for quite a while as these thing go. As soon as the spinor is unstuck,
I use regular tool to remove it. I make sure that the contact area between the tool and spinor has a thick rubber-like coating. I
have yet to make any marks on the spinors I certainly do not the 3/4" monster to replace the spinor . I use a torque wrench
Lowell Brown
1966 Gold 330 2+2 Series II
daytonaman
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by daytonaman »

John Vardanian wrote:Seem with the car firmly planted you're fighting the opposite forces that come from the tire. I tighten with the wheel off the ground just enough to seat the hub, then the final tighten with the tire firmly planted and the handbrake on.

john
Totally agree John. you must concentric the hub, the wheel and the knock off while it is all free in the air. I then tighten the nut with the car still jacked up but the wheel in contact with the floor just enough to stop it turning. Then do a short drive and do final tightness.
Don't worry about damage to the wheel bearings -- your puny hammer is nothing like the hammering they will get on the road.
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by Steve Meltzer »

I used a modification of Lowell's method. I have the large socket which I purchased years ago. It was already rubber coated, but the coating failed the very first time I used it. I now use several layers of heavy duty duct tape (? Naushua 357??) on all edges. As Lowell said, the 3/4 drive hole in the socket is really sloppy so the 3/4" extension wants to wobble; brazing or somehow welding them together would surely help. I tried the 3/4" air impact wrench but, it's heavy and a few cycles of "ratta tat tat" and no movement scared me, so I took it back to Harbor Freight. I now use a LONG pry bar, but one of the key things that helps, and that is to have a helper (my wife has been most gracious) hold the brakes firmly to the floorboard. There's clearly no really easy way. steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Lowell
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by Lowell »

"I tried the 3/4" air impact wrench but, it's heavy and a few cycles of "ratta tat tat" and no movement scared me, so I took it back to Harbor Freight. I now use a LONG pry bar, but one of the key things that helps, and that is to have a helper (my wife has been most gracious) hold the brakes firmly to the floorboard. There's clearly no really easy way. steve"

My air impact wrench is also from Harbor Freight.

I think that this method puts less stress on the bearings etc.

The spinor makes no movement at first ---- you just have to be calm for a while.
It then moves a very small amount with each impact for a short period of time,
and finally unscrews quickly --- at this stage you should immediately stop the wrench
because it is heavy an you don't have that much control of it.

I once saw some guys removing a wheel from an F40. It is attached with a central screw but
with a hex head. A couple guys did it with an lever that was somewhere between 10 and 15
feet long

But we should get a team of guys, and see if we can set a new World's record.
I saw a YouTube in which a team of F1 mechanics changed all four wheels.
It took 1.7 seconds from the time the car just stopped until the time
the car took off. Any volunteers?
Lowell Brown
1966 Gold 330 2+2 Series II
Steve Meltzer
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by Steve Meltzer »

i assume you did this with the car on the ground, but it begs my first question which was how much more control you'd have of that behemoth air wrench if you were standing and the car was on the lift! I volunteer to yell and scream at the people doing the work, just like I do everyday on the job! s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
DWR46
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by DWR46 »

Daytonaman: I would make one comment. Any road impacts while driving are cushioned by the tire before they are transferred to the wheel bearings. When you hit the knockoff with a hammer, the blow is applied directly to the bearings. Another comment, the reason many knockoffs are designed with "angled" ears is so you CANNOT apply as much torque in tightening as you can in loosing. The theory being that you should always be able to loosen a knockoff that you installed. One more comment, I see that many here use "sockets' and long bars or torque wrenches to install and remove their wheels. I used to do this, but went back to "dead blow" or lead hammers. The sockets do not get the wheels tight enough for any serious usage, especially racing. We do use sockets on the modern race cars, but the torque settings are far greater (650-750 lbs) than what I have seen for the normal Ferrari design.
daytonaman
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by daytonaman »

Quite right Dyke, I hadn't considered the tyres.
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tyang
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Re: Removing knock off wheels

Post by tyang »

Another consideration when using sockets and breaker bars is for cars without steering column locks, the front wheels will require a helper to hold the steering wheel as you apply torque to the wheel. The long bar can easily turn the wheel into a fender as you apply pressure.

I recently bought a replacement lead hammer that is made by Cook Hammer Company. The common one I see being sold is a 3 pound lead hammer, but I bought a 4 pound one to try out. What a difference! The head is still small enough to hit the knock off accurately, but the extra weight applies more force without having me to swing as hard. I should buy a mold to recast the three hammers that are misshaped to keep from buying more hammers!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
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