Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

Greg Brendel
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:39 pm

Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby Greg Brendel » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:09 pm

Tom, I was reading an old post (below) about the fittings you made to add an upgraded modern electric fule pump which still allowed the clicking sound of the original set up that I think is really a requirment for me. Any updates? Does the check valve work ok on the original pump?
Thanks, Greg

Tom wrote:

"Speaking of upgrades, I decided to also upgrade my fuel pump on my car. I’ve been running an extra electric fuel pump to help with vapor lock issues, but I wanted to upgrade the pump to a larger Facet pump for more reliability. I also wanted to try out a set of fuel fittings I made to make this conversion easy to do. These fuel fitting will replace the banjo bolts that go on the FIAMM electric pump allowing the original pump to work normally."

"My fittings tap into the inlet and outlet port of the electric fuel pump, and as long as the check valve works on stock electric fuel pump, the extra fuel pump will assist the stock pump to move fuel to the carburetors. What’s neat is I wired the new fuel pump together with the old pump so you hear the click-click-click of the old pump, while the more efficient modern pump works in the background. As much as I like the sound of the old fuel pump, I know they’re not to be trusted. Ironically, when the weather gets hot, and demand for more cool fuel at the fuel rail is high, the stock fuel pump struggles to stay running. The contact points wear, and as things get hot, resistance rises too, causing the pump to stop working just when you need it the most! I hope this solution offers the best of both worlds. It will keep the Vintage sound and start up proceedure of an old Ferrari, but has the reliabilty of a modern solid state fuel pump!"
Attachments
fueladapter1.jpg
fueladapter1.jpg (495.6 KiB) Viewed 1774 times
fuel_pump_5053_95.jpg
fuel_pump_5053_95.jpg (348.12 KiB) Viewed 1774 times

Jimmyr
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby Jimmyr » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:37 am

Tom, what are your thoughts on running the pumps in parallel instead of series? The reliability of the fuel delivery system would be improved. This is the way aircraft systems work with their boost pumps. Also the use of injection rated fuel hoses increases the hose life with the modern fuels. Jim

enio45
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby enio45 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:53 am

Related to the original pump, what is the way to bench test it and what should i be measuring etc to do this.

I have an orig pump for my 58 Ellena and wanted to certain it is working efficiently before i install the pump and pump lines.

Appreciate the info
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

User avatar
John Vardanian
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby John Vardanian » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:33 am

Ed, there must be a more scientific way to do it, but this is how I have done it. First, make sure the pump is in top shape. Then, get a sacrificial banjo bolt and braze a bung on it so you can install a pressure gauge on the output of the pump. Install the pump with a extra paper gaskets to serve as spacer shims. Run the motor with the electric pump and read the gauge. Reduce the paper gaskets until you get about 3 psi. Theoretically this should get you to the sweet spot of the pump.

john
PF Coupe

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby tyang » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:10 pm

Hi Greg,

It's still running as I pictured it. When I fire up the electric pump, both old and new pumps work, and you do hear a slight steady tap of the old pump working with the modern Facet, but it's not as distinct. There's a slight swish noise as the pressure changes against the facet pump.

Jimmy,

I may try to run the pump in parallel and see if anything changes. When I get some spare time...

I should change the autoparts store fuel line to something more substantial soon!

Ed,

Are you talking about the electric pump or the fuel pump?

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

Jimmyr
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby Jimmyr » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:51 pm

Tom,

The electric Fispa fuel pump, you know the trouble maker!

Jim

enio45
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby enio45 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:47 pm

yes, electric fispa pump.....

got my arms around the mechanics one - but electric one i have not done anything with it yet....

it looks new, but then again, it was in a crate since 1974!
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

Jumprun
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby Jumprun » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:13 am

Here's my twist for a GTC, I added a modern pump in series with the old Fispa, then I ran a new wire to the new pump, then I installed a new 3 position toggle switch that when flipped down runs the original pump and when in the up position runs the new pump. I figure this reduces the electrical load of running two pumps at the same time and gives me the choice of either click-click or buzzzzzz.
The new switch is a Lucas just like the original and can be easily bought for about 30 bucks, all I needed to do was swap my original knob and bezel.

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby tyang » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:32 am

enio45 wrote:yes, electric fispa pump.....

got my arms around the mechanics one - but electric one i have not done anything with it yet....

it looks new, but then again, it was in a crate since 1974!


Hi Ed,

I would definitely rebuild the pump if it still has the old seals. Even if the seals are soft, once it's introduced to the new fuel we have today, it will dissolve or harden the old rubber.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

enio45
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby enio45 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:27 am

yes for sure - where do you order your rebuild kits from for the Electric Pumps?
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby tyang » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Hi Ed,

All of your favorite Vintage Ferrari Suppliers sell them. Isn't GT car parts in your neck of the woods? There's really on two pieces: the diaphragm and the lower gasket. You have to be very careful when unbolting the plunger making sure you don't screw up the alignment of the points contacts under the plastic cap. DO NOT fatigue the little wires under the cap, because that will give you more things to fix. The wire that goes to the windings is very fragile and if broken, you may be SOL. There's also a check valve that needs to me checked for operation.

Make sure the diaphragm is attached firmly to the plunger, as any fuel leaks between the plunger and the diaphragm can be catastrophic. I'm probably making sound worse than it is, but use common sense. These pumps are getting pretty rare and $$$, so try not to break what can't be replaced!

Good luck!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

enio45
Posts: 625
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:56 pm
Location: Gilbert, AZ

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby enio45 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:24 pm

got it - ill call Bill at GT Car Parts monday and get the necessary parts for a rebuild.
Ed Montini
330 GT 2+2 Series II - 8289
58 Ellena - 0855GT - orig drivetrain

Greg Brendel
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:39 pm

Electric Fuel Pump Wishlist

Postby Greg Brendel » Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:30 pm

Does this make sense? I want the best of both worlds and have the Fispa pump for "show" (Concourse and originality) and the Facet pump for "go" (rally's, long trips, hot TX days). Install both and have a switch under the car near the pumps to toggle back and forth. (I don't want any non-original switches and wires inside the car). I don't mind crawling under the car and flipping an electrical switch or lever. Have both installed and have only one working at a time without having to actually physically swap out the pumps. Also would be nice not to have to replace fuel lines from one pump to the other but I would not mind doing it if it kept things straightforward. I would not want anything that would compromise reliability or add any electrical gremlins and the simpler the better.

On the other hand, as I think while I write this, I would only change between the pumps once or at most twice a year so maybe its easier to just simplify things and install the Facet pump and do a swap out for the FISPA for shows or if I must hear the clicking noise? Would also extend the longevity of the Fispa pump. How long would a swap out take for an amateur mechanic like me?

User avatar
John Vardanian
Posts: 1682
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
Location: San Francisco Area

Re: Tom-Update on electric fuel pump upgrade?

Postby John Vardanian » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:22 am

Ed, one word of caution, handle the insulator bridge very gingerly. It is a very weak piece and can easily break in two.

john
PF Coupe

User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3685
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Electric Fuel Pump Wishlist

Postby tyang » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:57 am

Greg Brendel wrote:Does this make sense? I want the best of both worlds and have the Fispa pump for "show" (Concourse and originality) and the Facet pump for "go" (rally's, long trips, hot TX days). Install both and have a switch under the car near the pumps to toggle back and forth. (I don't want any non-original switches and wires inside the car). I don't mind crawling under the car and flipping an electrical switch or lever. Have both installed and have only one working at a time without having to actually physically swap out the pumps. Also would be nice not to have to replace fuel lines from one pump to the other but I would not mind doing it if it kept things straightforward. I would not want anything that would compromise reliability or add any electrical gremlins and the simpler the better.

On the other hand, as I think while I write this, I would only change between the pumps once or at most twice a year so maybe its easier to just simplify things and install the Facet pump and do a swap out for the FISPA for shows or if I must hear the clicking noise? Would also extend the longevity of the Fispa pump. How long would a swap out take for an amateur mechanic like me?


Hi Greg,

I made these fuel fittings with the barbs on the ends to do exactly what you want to do. They do not require you to change the plumbing on your current FISPA fuel pump, and all you have to do it buy a Facet pump, find a place to mount the pump, plumb the soft hoses from the barbs to the new pump, and wire it up. How you power it up, it's up to you. I would agree, it would be nice to switch between the two pumps as Jumprun, but a separate wire would have to run from the switches.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053


Return to “Vintage Ferraris”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot] and 2 guests