Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Moderators: 330GT, abrent

330GT_London
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:39 pm

Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT_London »

Hi, I have some electrical issues with my 330GT. ( see picture below ). Hope someone with electrical expertise can give a helping hand.

There are some weak connections in the circuit board, but I have a hard time finding out the exact problem as it's not permanent. Only on occasions the car doesn't start or stops due to no current / power by the ignition fuse. By fiddling around with the connection points and changing fuses it suddenly works. However, I believe it's not the actual fuse or fuse point that's the problem, I think there is a weak connection somewhere else in the board, as all 3 ( blue circle G) fuses go dead at the same time. (The fuses are intact and don't blow ).

Yesterday I changed the spade connection on the regulator fuse ( as it was a bit corroded ) and clean a bit with air-pressure. After this the car didn't start and there was now current on the Ignition fuse. So just from the cleaning and some touching it had gone off.

I measured all fuse connections with ignition on and found that all the 5 fuses from Regulator and down had current ( red circle F) and the 3 at the top had no current ( blue circle G). After fiddling around with all the connection I suddenly have current also in the top 3 ones again. I can't tell where the weak point is and what caused them to work again.

Appreciate any suggestions to where the weakness is in the board - making the power disappear from the( blue circled G ) connections, critically the ignition ?

Noticed some green substance on the cables at point C, some maybe needs to be cleaned. ( not sure if this is connected to my problem ).

I have also marked the pictures with different letters if anyone can identify what may cause this unstable electric current.

Many thanks, Kristian
330GT_electric_board_marked_letters_low.jpg
DWR46
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:23 pm

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by DWR46 »

Kristian: Item C. When you remove the wires from this connector, you should find two large metal "staples" that act to transfer current from one connection to another. These "staples" corrode and cause all kinds of problems with the electrics, as most of the power for the car passes through this connector. Try this first.
User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT »

The top four (G plus the first one below in F) are run off the ignition switch and ignition relay (E). See the 'switched' area in the attached picture. Since only the G fuses lose power, I suspect that the rivet holding the top F spade to the buss bar feeding the G fuses is loose, corroded or both. When you wiggle things, the connection works for a while. You could temporarily remove the brown wire to the top of F (regulator) and make a Y jumper to connect the wire back to the regulator and also to the bottom fuse of G (wipers, etc.). Just make sure that the connection from the wire to the jumper is well insulated. If this solves the problem, then you need to consider a permanent solution. A similar case on another 330 GT was fixed by removing the fuse block, cleaning that rivet area, re-tightening it using a pin punch and backing tool and then soldering the area to make a good electrical connection and to help prevent further corrosion.

As Dyke mentions, point C is very critical. That's where the power comes from the battery through the ammeter into the whole fuse panel and gets distributed to everywhere else. Keeping those connection clean and tight is critical. I've seen cases where that connection block gets melted from overheating connections.

See http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/3 ... emlins.htm for some of the other issues with the 330 GT fuse panels.

I've attached a partial wiring diagram of the fuse area so help you understand how the power flows. A complete printed color diagram (20"x30") is available if you are interested in purchasing one.
untitled.JPG
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
330GT_London
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT_London »

Hi DWR46,
Appreciate you getting back to me so quickly. The electrical connection you are mentioning ( C ) was actually the one I felt looks a bit corroded and weak - so this does make a lot of sense. As I am not yet expert on all the electrical connections on this board, it's a bit overwhelming with all the connections and no map / diagram. Helps a lot to get a pointing finger.
I will open this connector and clean all the connection points.
As the Ignition current only goes dead occasionally, I might not be able to tell for sure if the problem has been fixed until after some time. I can post a picture of the corrosion of the connection when I open it.
Sometimes it is harder to fix or solve these problems that only appears occasionally...
Many thanks !!
330GT_London
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT_London »

Hi Kerry,
Thank you for your comments on this.
The top F brown/orange cable was the one that had some corrosion and I just changed it for a new spade connector ( the one going into the Regulator fuse ). So you are right in that there could be further problems on this connection. I will check if anything is loose or further corroded there. Will try to clean up as much as possible in this area. Will also follow Dyke's suggestion of cleaning up point C.
Thanks for the help and the diagram - will let you know how it goes.
Kristian
User avatar
330GT
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:30 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT »

330GT_London wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:36 am Hi Kerry,
Thank you for your comments on this.
The top F brown/orange cable was the one that had some corrosion and I just changed it for a new spade connector ( the one going into the Regulator fuse ). So you are right in that there could be further problems on this connection. I will check if anything is loose or further corroded there. Will try to clean up as much as possible in this area. Will also follow Dyke's suggestion of cleaning up point C.
Thanks for the help and the diagram - will let you know how it goes.
Kristian
I'm somewhat skeptical it being just the spade connector. If it was, all four upper fuses wouldn't have power, but your description said that only the upper three were dead when the problem occurs. The rivet holds the spade connector, spring fuse clip and the buss bar together. And remember, that part is now 50+ years old.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605
Jimmyr
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by Jimmyr »

As Dyke has pointed out on block "C", also remove the wires from block "D", and clean these wires and sockets as well. Ferrari used many dissimilar metals in many connectors. Brass, copper, tin, lead, steel; all create corrosion due to the difference in chemical make up of the metals. This factor, and time lead to poor electrical performances in the connectors. In both C and D blocks also remove the screws that hold the wires and clean them up before installing them.
Even the 'newer' Ferraris like Daytona's, Boxers, TR's, etc. have had the rivets on the fuse panel cause the same problem you are seeing, and they have/could lead to panel melt downs.
chris
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:52 am

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by chris »

Hi Kristian,

I can only recommend to purchase the full diagram from Kerry. I do have one. It is poster size and color coded. It really made my life easy when I rewired my car. Worth the smallmoney he charges
many times.

Christopher
330GT_London
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT_London »

Thanks for all the advice, will definitely purchase the diagrams from Kerry!
BLOCK C was a strong weak point !
I started opening block C on the picture as this seemed corroded. When trying to undo the screws I realised that it was very bad on the upper part where the green cable goes in. The top screws were actually completely stuck and so weak they broke. I managed to get it off eventually. You can see from the new picture that it was in a bad state. I will clean up and put back together.
The black connection block is not in a good condition, so I thought I will get this replaced. Will call some specialist suppliers on Monday to see if they have a correct replacement.
One question( maybe obvious for some): Why is there a brass wire going from one hole to the other on both sides of the electric block ?
330GT_block_c_low.jpg
Jimmyr
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by Jimmyr »

The bare copper not brass items you questioned are jumpers or interconnect wires to connect the terminals to each side of the block. Be sure to clean these as well as the wires and the insides of the blocks terminals. Also do this for the other block on the board.
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3929
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by tyang »

Your best plan is to disconnect every connection, clean and reinstall. If one junction is corroded and causing problems, you will probably see more down the road. Those connections may not have been cleaned in 50 years and those connections heat up from as resistance builds. The more resistance, the more heat, the more heat, the more the connections will deform and fail. If you clean all the connections, you will probably be good to go for another 50 years. Check some of the spade connectors too, and make sure they have tight connections to their female mates. The heat from bad connections can cause the brass spade connectors to loosen. Be prepared to see some break if you apply too much of a squeeze with a pair of pliers as the heat can make them brittle.

Good luck.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3929
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by tyang »

Also, use dielectric grease on these connections after you clean everything up. This special grease will keep moisture and oxygen away from the connections, and insure many more years of service.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
330GT_London
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT_London »

Thanks Jimmy and Tom.
Yes, I will go through all the connections, clean them up properly and protect with dielectric grease. This one was worse than expected.
330GT_London
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:39 pm

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by 330GT_London »

Solved!
I have now cleaned up and fitted a new connector block ( see picture ). I got a good quality Bakelite Connector Block TR ( Testarossa ), fits perfectly and looks the part.( Not sure if my old one was the original Connector Block )
Also like Kerry mentioned the rivet holding the top F spade ( Regulator ) was a bit loose, so I made this tight.
Took the car for a ride today and everything seems to be working fine.

Will clean up more connections another day in the workshop.
330GT_elec2_low.jpg
User avatar
tyang
Posts: 3929
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:28 pm
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Electrical Board - Ignition problems

Post by tyang »

Great news and good job! That's one of the nice things about these old Ferraris, many of the parts are serviceable, a rare thing to find in modern cars.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Post Reply