Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

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peterp
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Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

I'm going to proactively replace the battery on my 330 GT even though it still works great just because it's very old (batteries seem to last forever on vintage cars that don't have any parasitic drain).

I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with the latest offerings from "vintage-style" battery manufacturers. '

The one below looks very nice, but I wonder how good the battery actually is. The description says that they've changed to using AGM batteries internally (I actually prefer lead acid because they seem a little less finicky in discharge situations, but AGM does perform better).

https://batterycentralmall.com/product/ ... ery-sg27p/

Image

Does anybody have any experience with the above, or have another vintage-style battery they'd recommend?
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Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169
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Tom Wilson
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by Tom Wilson »

I purchased my G67P/RF/DS Red Caps battery from Jim's Battery in Youngstown Ohio who appears to be out of business. It looks like the photo you have and and it is a 67P. The RF means the positive terminal is in the right front, P stands for Plain and I don't remember what DS stands for. Regardless it has worked very well since I bought it in July of 2020, though being in California I do not have extreme conditions.

You can order the Baroclem sticker from Motion Products who bought Kilimanjaro Designs from Parker Hall.
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peterp
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

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Tom Wilson wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:52 pm I purchased my G67P/RF/DS Red Caps battery from Jim's Battery in Youngstown Ohio who appears to be out of business. It looks like the photo you have and and it is a 67P. The RF means the positive terminal is in the right front, P stands for Plain and I don't remember what DS stands for. Regardless it has worked very well since I bought it in July of 2020, though being in California I do not have extreme conditions.

You can order the Baroclem sticker from Motion Products who bought Kilimanjaro Designs from Parker Hall.
Thanks Tom. I didn't realize Parker had retired. I'll miss the catalog and talking to Parker on the phone. Is this the correct website to order from? https://kilimanjarodesigns.com/

I'll probably order the Magneti decal -- I suspect the same size as the Baroclem. Does the sticker fit exactly in the indent on the battery? Pretty cool if so.
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by Tom Wilson »

Yes, Motion kept the Kilimanjaro name and web site. I have the Baroclem sticker and I think it looks great. I actually am not sure when Ferrari switched battery suppliers. I went with Baroclem because that is what is shown in the owners manual. You can see from the manual picture that it was the early style engine and the battery is at a different angle, so things do change. This battery does fit the battery holder however. Anyway, no one has complained yet, in fact, I have gotten compliments!
Baroclem.jpg
Baroclem II.jpg
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by John Vardanian »

I have had one of these façade type batteries, as shown in your picture, for at least 9-10 years and it still works. Mind you, I drive my car about 2-3 times a year, so I need to slow charge it overnight every time. But, the next day it spins the engine with the same vigor as a new battery--it surprises me every time.

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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by 330GT »

peterp wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:28 pm ...

I'll probably order the Magneti decal -- I suspect the same size as the Baroclem. Does the sticker fit exactly in the indent on the battery? Pretty cool if so.
8169 probably had a Safa 6SFS4 battery as the build sheets for 8109 and 8205 show that battery. It looks like only the 6SR3 and 6SNS5 are available from Kilimanjaro. Here's a picture of where they go:
BatterySAFA6SNS5.gif
BatterySAFA6SNS5.gif (14.57 KiB) Viewed 14553 times
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

John Vardanian wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 12:42 am I have had one of these façade type batteries, as shown in your picture, for at least 9-10 years and it still works. Mind you, I drive my car about 2-3 times a year, so I need to slow charge it overnight every time. But, the next day it spins the engine with the same vigor as a new battery--it surprises me every time.

john
Thanks John. Good to hear that these specialty batteries have longevity. I have pretty much the same routine. I never use a trickle charger on the 330 -- I'll just slow charge (2-amp setting on the charger) a couple of times during winter storage, and then it's good to go after that even if it's a few weeks between drives. I think my existing battery is more than 15 years old -- it's still works great, but I think a cell will eventually go bad, so I'm going to proactively replace it.

I kind of wish the specialty batteries were non-AGM (as I would guess yours is) just because I think the traditional lead acid is more robust. I've emailed the seller to see if non-AGM can still be made.

I just noticed on their website that delivery time is estimated to be 16-28 weeks (!). I'm in no rush, but that's a LONG time -- its a good thing I'm doing it proactively while my current battery is fine.
Peter P
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

330GT wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 10:04 am
peterp wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:28 pm ...

I'll probably order the Magneti decal -- I suspect the same size as the Baroclem. Does the sticker fit exactly in the indent on the battery? Pretty cool if so.
8169 probably had a Safa 6SFS4 battery as the build sheets for 8109 and 8205 show that battery. It looks like only the 6SR3 and 6SNS5 are available from Kilimanjaro. Here's a picture of where they go:
BatterySAFA6SNS5.gif
Thanks Kerry -- I would LOVE to have (or just get a look at) the build sheets for 8169 -- but I guess the only channel for that now is a protracted process through Classiche :(.

Seems almost certain it would have come with Safa from your data points (also just noticed you have some more detail on battery types by SN here http://www.330gt.com/Encyclopedia/Decals.htm). My current battery has Magneti Marelli on it, but I'll follow your suggestion and go with Safa this time. I'll use the 6SNS5 version, in the absence of 6SFS4, since it looks like that was used on after SN 8300.
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

I just realized I need the "Group 24" size, not the group 27 battery I linked to in the first post.

This is the link for group 24: https://batterycentralmall.com/product/ ... ery-sg24p/
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by 330GT »

peterp wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:52 pm I just realized I need the "Group 24" size, not the group 27 battery I linked to in the first post.

This is the link for group 24: https://batterycentralmall.com/product/ ... ery-sg24p/
Unless someone had changed out the battery frames, it should be a group 27.
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by Tom Wilson »

I checked my build sheets and my Series III GTE did have a Baroclem ?11 Battery. I couldn't read the first number but other Series III Build Sheets confirmed that it was M11.
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by tyang »

Hi All,

I've given up on ordering the AGM batteries because of the long lead time. They also don't seem to answer their phone, so it doesn't inspire much confidence. I've gone to NAPA lead acid batteries that the stickers easily come off the case to reveal a plain black case and a flat area on the side to stick a vintage sticker. They don't have the lead straps or the vintage caps, but they're a little less expensive than the $300+ for the AGM.I usually get 3-5 years out of regular lead acid battery, and sometimes longer. I don't know if AGMs can be recycled as easily as the conventional lead acid batteries either.

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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

330GT wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:53 am
peterp wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:52 pm I just realized I need the "Group 24" size, not the group 27 battery I linked to in the first post.

This is the link for group 24: https://batterycentralmall.com/product/ ... ery-sg24p/
Unless someone had changed out the battery frames, it should be a group 27.
Hi Kerry -- I'm pretty sure the battery frames are original. From memory, the bottom frame is bonded to the engine compartment panels would be very difficult to change out cleanly and it definitely looked original (and sized for a 24). Not that I fully trust a modern battery website to be accurate for our cars, but Interstate's battery lookup shows a group 27 for Series 1 (1964 and 1965) (https://www.interstatebatteries.com/pro ... -gt-v1240l) and a group 34 (which I think is a shorter version of the 24) for 1966-1968 (https://www.interstatebatteries.com/pro ... -gt-v1240l).
Peter P
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

tyang wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:11 pm Hi All,

I've given up on ordering the AGM batteries because of the long lead time. They also don't seem to answer their phone, so it doesn't inspire much confidence. I've gone to NAPA lead acid batteries that the stickers easily come off the case to reveal a plain black case and a flat area on the side to stick a vintage sticker. They don't have the lead straps or the vintage caps, but they're a little less expensive than the $300+ for the AGM.I usually get 3-5 years out of regular lead acid battery, and sometimes longer. I don't know if AGMs can be recycled as easily as the conventional lead acid batteries either.

Tom
I emailed BCM over the weekend asking if the non-AGM version was still available. Wayne from BCM emailed back first thing this morning saying they only carry AGM. I replied with some questions about what he had seen with regard to sizing for 330 GT's, and also current delivery time for batteries, and didn't receive a response. I'll try to give them a call tomorrow.
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Re: Vintage Style Battery Manufacturers

Post by peterp »

Wayne at BCM (https://batterycentralmall.com/product- ... n/ferrari/) replied to my email this morning, and then we spoke on the phone for about 20 minutes. He's a good guy and provided a lot of info. He said the internals of the the batteries are made by either XS Power or Odyssey, the largest makers of AGM batteries -- most likely would be XS if ordered now and delivery time is roughly 4 to 8 months.

He said with AGM you need to use an AGM-compliant 10-amp charger and to charge it once a month or so for at least 12 hours because the "maintenance" mode of the AGM charger helps keep the cells fresh. The batteries have a 4-year warranty, he said he has seen them last 5-6 years typically, but as long as 12 years if maintained properly with the charger.

I asked them if the "tar top" was real or simulated (having read a post in an old TY thread that a tar top vintage-style batter leaked) and he said it was simulated (which was good news to me). I asked if they made a lead acid (non-AGM) version and he said they used to sell both, but nobody bought the lead acid once AGM came out (which was around 2008), so they only sell AGM now.

I definitely trust BCM and Wayne as a seller based upon the conversation -- he was very generous with his time and very transparent about everything. For me, I'd buy it in a heartbeat if they still had lead acid version, but I"m not a fan of the monthly maintenance charging for AGM, so I'm leaning against it at the moment.

He didn't have any information about sizing for individual models -- I was hoping he had a history of 330 GT orders to see what sizes were ordered, but he said people usually don't indicate what car/model they are ordering it for. I also asked if he had any info or cross-reference data on Safa 6SFS4 (likely used on my car from Kerry's data) and Safa 6SNS5 (used on SN 8300+ from Kerry's data), but he doesn't have any of that info. I couldn't find any date online about those Safa battery models either.
Peter P
1966 330 2+2 series 2 #8169
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