I had a chance to buy this one...
just could not stomach the interior color
must have been a special order
(color of money?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 61101&rd=1
now if the leather was RED......
no-sale green
In addition to the interior color, "slipping transmission, crease in front near headlight, torn driver's seat" sounds pretty scary.
Cosmopolitan Motors had this for sale in 2002, listing it for $22,500. The current seller is "cosmotor" so sounds like the same people.
Despite all of the"wealthy collector" owners (including an unpaid note of $11,000 on this one now), and that this car was donated to charity at one time, this car strikes me as neglected and unloved for a long time.
John
Cosmopolitan Motors had this for sale in 2002, listing it for $22,500. The current seller is "cosmotor" so sounds like the same people.
Despite all of the"wealthy collector" owners (including an unpaid note of $11,000 on this one now), and that this car was donated to charity at one time, this car strikes me as neglected and unloved for a long time.
John
John Ashburne
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black
I'm developing a very strong desire for a 400i. Are there some links to definative sites were I can get more information?
I loooove the old Ferraris out of the sixties like Tom's georgous 330 America, but I'm the first to admit, I'm not ready for that kind of investment in both time and money. I figure the 400i would be a nice driver that I can learn the ropes with.
I like the fout seat configuration. Styling and of course, the V12.
Would the 400i be a good entry into the fold?
Koll
I loooove the old Ferraris out of the sixties like Tom's georgous 330 America, but I'm the first to admit, I'm not ready for that kind of investment in both time and money. I figure the 400i would be a nice driver that I can learn the ropes with.
I like the fout seat configuration. Styling and of course, the V12.
Would the 400i be a good entry into the fold?
Koll
Koll,
In my opinion the Ferrari 400 is a wonderful car but is very complex and expensive to maintain (especially if the maintenance is not up to date) relative to the earlier cars or the 3X8s.
Unless you are willing to buy the very best and then spend $4k - $5k per year on upkeep, or do it yourself like fest, I would recommend that you pick another car.
Regards,
Art S.
In my opinion the Ferrari 400 is a wonderful car but is very complex and expensive to maintain (especially if the maintenance is not up to date) relative to the earlier cars or the 3X8s.
Unless you are willing to buy the very best and then spend $4k - $5k per year on upkeep, or do it yourself like fest, I would recommend that you pick another car.
Regards,
Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919
Have a look at my site on 400's at http://www.400register.com/
My car is #21557 and there are lots of pictures of it's restoration and a detailed restoration history (nowhere near as good as this site though)
My car is #21557 and there are lots of pictures of it's restoration and a detailed restoration history (nowhere near as good as this site though)
Simon in the UK
1973 246GT Dino
1976 365 Boxer
1977 400 Auto
1973 246GT Dino
1976 365 Boxer
1977 400 Auto
I've owned a 400i for 5 1/2 years and 11,000 miles and I can tell you that it hasn't needed "$4-5K of maintenance every year" or even close to that. I've rebuilt the alternators, bought new tires, charged up and replaced seals on the A/C, replaced the rear brake pads, done some work on the fuse box (a known weak point in the series), changed spark plugs, changed fluids and some other DIY owner maintenance, but nothing more serious has been needed. The main thing I am wondering about is when it will require a valve clearance adjustment, but even that is comparatively simple relative to a belt change on, say, a 348 or a 355 or even a 456.
One of the nice things about the 400i is the simple and well-known Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection that is easy to adjust and stays adjusted, plus the fact that its technology is still accessible to the do it yourself owner. All this in a car that is around 20 years old, which for a well-maintained car means that a big restoration is not required. Young enough to work if it has had good maintenance but old enough not to require computers, OBD diagnostics, ECU meltdowns, etc. etc. Kind of the best of both worlds in my opinion.
Having said all that, the relatively low prices prevailing for 400/400i series cars means that lots of cars on the market are suffering from deferred maintainance issues. A thorough PPI is essential and access to a service history can provide some insight into future service needs.
Yes, the V12 aspect plus some of the characteristics of the 400i can be more expensive to maintain (rear suspension comes to mind), but at its heart it is an extremely robust car mechanically.
And a real blast to drive!
John
One of the nice things about the 400i is the simple and well-known Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection that is easy to adjust and stays adjusted, plus the fact that its technology is still accessible to the do it yourself owner. All this in a car that is around 20 years old, which for a well-maintained car means that a big restoration is not required. Young enough to work if it has had good maintenance but old enough not to require computers, OBD diagnostics, ECU meltdowns, etc. etc. Kind of the best of both worlds in my opinion.
Having said all that, the relatively low prices prevailing for 400/400i series cars means that lots of cars on the market are suffering from deferred maintainance issues. A thorough PPI is essential and access to a service history can provide some insight into future service needs.
Yes, the V12 aspect plus some of the characteristics of the 400i can be more expensive to maintain (rear suspension comes to mind), but at its heart it is an extremely robust car mechanically.
And a real blast to drive!
John
John Ashburne
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black
I concur with both John and Art S. - The 365GT4 2+2/400 series is more complex mechanically than the earlier 4 seat V12's, but the general problem is that the whole range of available 2+2 V12 Ferraris are prone to "deferred maintenance issues" and a potential new owner needs to be realistic about this.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
Yes, I concur with all the sage comments and they are valid. It isn't a Toyota, so the need for a PPI on any car is a must. I'm no fool and although at some time I'm sure I'll see the insides of a F engine, doing so right off the bat isn't the best way to start your Ferrari relationship!
Bosch-K is nice and I'm rather familiar with it. I have been turning my own wrench for a while, and if I can't work on the car, that's a sign I shouldn't own it. :)
I remain undeterred at this point. I just may go the 400i route after all! I've always strove to drive something different. It's either a Ferrari or a Citroen DS or SM. A hundred hours is a hundred hours. I'm sure the ultimate payback with the Ferrari is a better investment in time.
Thanks John, for the link on your restoration!
Regards,
Koll
Seattle
Bosch-K is nice and I'm rather familiar with it. I have been turning my own wrench for a while, and if I can't work on the car, that's a sign I shouldn't own it. :)
I remain undeterred at this point. I just may go the 400i route after all! I've always strove to drive something different. It's either a Ferrari or a Citroen DS or SM. A hundred hours is a hundred hours. I'm sure the ultimate payback with the Ferrari is a better investment in time.
Thanks John, for the link on your restoration!
Regards,
Koll
Seattle
Well if the other cars being considered are Citroen DS and SM, you will have nothing to fear about maintenance issues for a 400i, which pales in comparison to those cars, particularly the SM!
BTW, the restoration link was to Simon, who has documented some amazing work on his 400 and has put togethr a very useful site for the entire series.
Good luck in your search!
John
BTW, the restoration link was to Simon, who has documented some amazing work on his 400 and has put togethr a very useful site for the entire series.
Good luck in your search!
John
John Ashburne
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black
Koll, if you really want a 400i, which I think are great (was my first Ferrari), then hold out for a 5 speed. Mine was, and I loved it. I haven't driven a 400i with the AT, but I had a 928S4 with AT, which has a similar power and mass to the 400i, and it was very disappointing. Unless you are going to be using the car as a daily commuter, you will enjoy the 5spd much more. When I first got the car, I spent a Saturday morning just getting on/off the freeway so I could wind it up through the gears to 6K. Sounded incredible. I also loved the driving position the 400i had. It was probably the most comfortable car I've driven - just the right amount of headroom, legroom, and steering wheel reach (I'm 6'2"). Good luck in your search.
Udo
Udo
Ah a good review on driving position! One of the things that is usually a sore spot with most cars.
Yes, I know that the 5 speeds are rare, but I tend to agree. Having a V12 without being the direct link between the flywheel and the wheels is something I'd rather not be involved with.
Thanks, Udo.
Koll
Yes, I know that the 5 speeds are rare, but I tend to agree. Having a V12 without being the direct link between the flywheel and the wheels is something I'd rather not be involved with.
Thanks, Udo.
Koll
i-yi-yi
Koll-
the 400i can indeed be costly to maintain / repair
(how does $500 for (1) USED Parking Lamp grab ya?)
that said, I have found that the 400i has been a GREAT intro
to the Vintage V12 Ferrari Realm
I would most defineatly choose the 400i over the 400
for one's first foray into V12 ownership
as the benifits of Bosch K-Jetronic
and Marelli Digiplex
(as discussed) are many...
the mere thought of tuning up 6 2-Barrel Webers
and 2 Distributors with 2 sets of points EACH
is intimidatating to even the most die hard DIY types
my car always fired right off, and settled into a good idle
(under all climactic conditions)
never fouled the plugs, etc.
as for the 5-speed, I had read that the Auto is better
but after having driven it quite a bit
I think the 5-speed may be the way to go
as I usually find myself downshifting and upshifting manually
and often wishing for a wider range of gear selections
and the Auto is not really suited to this type of useage
(I know mine was lunched after only abt 75K miles)
the 5-speed model is a lot more rare critter, however
(and percived as being more desireable)
so be prepared to pay a premium...
there is one advertised by a FCA member with a 5-speed
(Black/Tan if memory serves)
which sounds like a real nice one
(I will provide contact info if you want)
is in OR or WA if I remember correctly
also a Red/Black one in the area w 5-speed as well
you may have seen this ad, with the jet plane?
seems like an OK ride (if you can deal with the color)
as for the driving position
at first I did not get it at all-
seemed akward, at best
until my first serious session
deep into the twisty turnies
then I realized that the postion
was very natural,
just perfect for high speed work
all the controls just seemed to fall right to hand
if I had to do it all over again?
i would spend more at the outset
for a better car
(typical rookie mistake)
the 400i can indeed be costly to maintain / repair
(how does $500 for (1) USED Parking Lamp grab ya?)
that said, I have found that the 400i has been a GREAT intro
to the Vintage V12 Ferrari Realm
I would most defineatly choose the 400i over the 400
for one's first foray into V12 ownership
as the benifits of Bosch K-Jetronic
and Marelli Digiplex
(as discussed) are many...
the mere thought of tuning up 6 2-Barrel Webers
and 2 Distributors with 2 sets of points EACH
is intimidatating to even the most die hard DIY types
my car always fired right off, and settled into a good idle
(under all climactic conditions)
never fouled the plugs, etc.
as for the 5-speed, I had read that the Auto is better
but after having driven it quite a bit
I think the 5-speed may be the way to go
as I usually find myself downshifting and upshifting manually
and often wishing for a wider range of gear selections
and the Auto is not really suited to this type of useage
(I know mine was lunched after only abt 75K miles)
the 5-speed model is a lot more rare critter, however
(and percived as being more desireable)
so be prepared to pay a premium...
there is one advertised by a FCA member with a 5-speed
(Black/Tan if memory serves)
which sounds like a real nice one
(I will provide contact info if you want)
is in OR or WA if I remember correctly
also a Red/Black one in the area w 5-speed as well
you may have seen this ad, with the jet plane?
seems like an OK ride (if you can deal with the color)
as for the driving position
at first I did not get it at all-
seemed akward, at best
until my first serious session
deep into the twisty turnies
then I realized that the postion
was very natural,
just perfect for high speed work
all the controls just seemed to fall right to hand
if I had to do it all over again?
i would spend more at the outset
for a better car
(typical rookie mistake)
AKB
~~~~~~~
400i SI 32635
~~~~~~~
400i SI 32635
message for udo
Udo I keep sending you private messages but you never read them so with apologies to the list:
Hey you have my favorite Lamborghini! An Islero S. Please tell me all about it. How did you get it, how much was it. I have been looking at these for a while. Are Lambo's of this vintage more difficult then comparible Ferraris because of scarcity of resources? Did you sell the Muira to get this as I see that is not in your signature anymore?
Can you pm me with your email address so we are not talking about Lamborghini's on this Ferrari list?
Thanks,
Yale
Hey you have my favorite Lamborghini! An Islero S. Please tell me all about it. How did you get it, how much was it. I have been looking at these for a while. Are Lambo's of this vintage more difficult then comparible Ferraris because of scarcity of resources? Did you sell the Muira to get this as I see that is not in your signature anymore?
Can you pm me with your email address so we are not talking about Lamborghini's on this Ferrari list?
Thanks,
Yale