GT 2+2 and Metal Gear Shift Gates
GT 2+2 and Metal Gear Shift Gates
I have looked at and driven a number of vintage GT 2+2's. One part of the experience I miss vs the 2 seaters is running the stick through the metal gear shift gate. Can you retrofit a metal gate to a 250 GT 2+2, 330 GT 2+2 or a 365 GT 2+2 ? Thanks, Boxer42
365 GTB/4 Daytona, F40
The vintage cars that have the metal shift gates, such as the GTC, GTS, Daytona, etc., have transaxles. My guess is that the metal gate is primarily engineering followed by aesthetic effect -it is part of a system designed to deliver a positive and tight shift to a transmission four feet behind the shift lever. It also looks cool and has a unique feel.
I 've seen pics of 50's racers with shift gates as well, and I don't know if they had transaxles or not.
I thought about the same thing when I had the transmission tunnel off of my 330 GT. I'm sure it could be done but would have no function other than appearance. The lever would vibrate and rattle and the gate would be an impediment to smooth shifts, since the fundamental lever mechanism is different.
If someone hasdone this successfully, I'd like to see it.
I 've seen pics of 50's racers with shift gates as well, and I don't know if they had transaxles or not.
I thought about the same thing when I had the transmission tunnel off of my 330 GT. I'm sure it could be done but would have no function other than appearance. The lever would vibrate and rattle and the gate would be an impediment to smooth shifts, since the fundamental lever mechanism is different.
If someone hasdone this successfully, I'd like to see it.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
Here's what I replied on Ferrarichat:
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I'd take some strips of cardboard and use them to make a pattern for the gate. Put a strip at the front of the console where 1st, 3rd and 5th (for a five speed) and use it for the most forward position. Put another strip rearward, for 2nd, 4th and R. Temporarily tape each piece to the console.
Next, mark the sides of your pattern by a cardboard strip on either side, one for 1st and 2nd, another for 5th and reverse. Tape those four pieces square.
Put the gearshift into each gear, and figure out where the gearshift doesn't need to go. These should be marked by strips cut to the appropriate width. Tape it all together, and mark four holes for screws.
Take your pattern to a machine shop, and ask them to machine (or mill) this out of 1/8" 316 stainless steel, and you'll have a gate that fits your car. No need to use an original.
At least that's how I would do it...
--Matt
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Two new thoughts:
First, you should start with a square hole cut from a square of cardboard. The outer edge would define the outside of the shift gate. Then add strips to that. Ask an art supply store for "chipboard" which is excellent for all sorts of pattern making.
Second, if the shift gate is smaller than the hole in the console, you'll have to add some material (like fiberglass) back to the console, and then recover it with new leather.
If you could bring your car to me, I'd show you exactly how to do it.
--Matt
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I'd take some strips of cardboard and use them to make a pattern for the gate. Put a strip at the front of the console where 1st, 3rd and 5th (for a five speed) and use it for the most forward position. Put another strip rearward, for 2nd, 4th and R. Temporarily tape each piece to the console.
Next, mark the sides of your pattern by a cardboard strip on either side, one for 1st and 2nd, another for 5th and reverse. Tape those four pieces square.
Put the gearshift into each gear, and figure out where the gearshift doesn't need to go. These should be marked by strips cut to the appropriate width. Tape it all together, and mark four holes for screws.
Take your pattern to a machine shop, and ask them to machine (or mill) this out of 1/8" 316 stainless steel, and you'll have a gate that fits your car. No need to use an original.
At least that's how I would do it...
--Matt
-------------
Two new thoughts:
First, you should start with a square hole cut from a square of cardboard. The outer edge would define the outside of the shift gate. Then add strips to that. Ask an art supply store for "chipboard" which is excellent for all sorts of pattern making.
Second, if the shift gate is smaller than the hole in the console, you'll have to add some material (like fiberglass) back to the console, and then recover it with new leather.
If you could bring your car to me, I'd show you exactly how to do it.
--Matt
Matt:
I just saw the posts on fchat in regard to this. I had forgotten about the conversions with gated shifters. I came across this on Sheehan's page-looks like exactly what you describe. You can see where there is a flexible boot around the elevated box on which the gate is mounted, obviously so the gate can move with the engine and trans, rather than the body.
I just wonder how well it actually works.
http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/FE- ... P029.shtml
I just saw the posts on fchat in regard to this. I had forgotten about the conversions with gated shifters. I came across this on Sheehan's page-looks like exactly what you describe. You can see where there is a flexible boot around the elevated box on which the gate is mounted, obviously so the gate can move with the engine and trans, rather than the body.
I just wonder how well it actually works.
http://www.ferraris-online.com/cars/FE- ... P029.shtml
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
Tom, some of us are just old 60's hot rodders at heart...just can't help messing with things...tyang wrote:Is it me, or why would you want to make a car into something it was not? The gate was there for a reason, and the Vintage cars that don't have them don't need them.
I guess I've become more of a purist.
Tom
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
I guess it's the logic that baffles me. There's nothing wrong with hot rodding, but I see it kind of like adding non functional air intakes.
Now some of you are going to point out that a Lusso has a non functional hood scoop, but there is a design asthetic working to break up the line in the hood for it to look right. A shifter gate is a contradiction in function, and out of place for that particular car. Just my opinion. Do what you want with your car, and leave it to me and the next owner to be baffled!
Tom
Now some of you are going to point out that a Lusso has a non functional hood scoop, but there is a design asthetic working to break up the line in the hood for it to look right. A shifter gate is a contradiction in function, and out of place for that particular car. Just my opinion. Do what you want with your car, and leave it to me and the next owner to be baffled!
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
That's true, because the GTOs had transaxles.Jim wrote:I recall interior pics of 250 GTO's which show a shift gate.
Tom, the question wasn't whether one should put a non-original shifter gate on a car, but how it could be done.
One probably shouldn't, but if he really wanted to, I think that he would do well by following my advice. :)
I've got two "concepts" working in my head for continued restoration of my 330.
The first , of course, is the straight up approach, where I simply do the exterior color and interior in a conservative color scheme that I like and stick with original intent on everything else.
The second is more the hotrod approach, where I install a hood with a custom scoop that functions with a cold air box, strip out the interior and redo it 1960's competition style with bucket front seats and racing harnesses, lowpile carpet and padded /quilted leather trans tunnel cover and the gated shifter. Rear seats would be removed and a low platform installed, with padded /quilted leather cover and old style luggage straps. Add competition style accessories such as stainless fire extinguisher, pushbutton engine starter, fuel and battery shutoffs in the cockpit, aluminum pedal trim, etc. Color scheme would be less conservative than with the first approach but still well within Ferrari tradition: original factory colors in either case.
I've already consulted with my shop and they tell me there's not a lot you can do as far as engine tweaking without spending big bucks and losing driver-ability. Best thing to do is just keep it well maintained and in top tune.
Whichever approach, it's fun to think about!
The first , of course, is the straight up approach, where I simply do the exterior color and interior in a conservative color scheme that I like and stick with original intent on everything else.
The second is more the hotrod approach, where I install a hood with a custom scoop that functions with a cold air box, strip out the interior and redo it 1960's competition style with bucket front seats and racing harnesses, lowpile carpet and padded /quilted leather trans tunnel cover and the gated shifter. Rear seats would be removed and a low platform installed, with padded /quilted leather cover and old style luggage straps. Add competition style accessories such as stainless fire extinguisher, pushbutton engine starter, fuel and battery shutoffs in the cockpit, aluminum pedal trim, etc. Color scheme would be less conservative than with the first approach but still well within Ferrari tradition: original factory colors in either case.
I've already consulted with my shop and they tell me there's not a lot you can do as far as engine tweaking without spending big bucks and losing driver-ability. Best thing to do is just keep it well maintained and in top tune.
Whichever approach, it's fun to think about!
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
