Guys,
This past Sunday morning I went to the Times Square photo shoot and drive organized by members of Ferrarichat. Mine was the only vintage car there. It was very interesting and a very different crowd than I am used to. The drive was a lot of fun until I spun out in the light drizzle (no damage - except an upset wife).
When we were pulling out, all the drivers of the newer cars were revving their engines to redline after having cooled for an hour. My question is: are they nuts or do the modern cars not have any warm-up issues?
Regards,
Art S.
Warm-up question new vs. old
Warm-up question new vs. old
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919
Meanwhile, on FerrariChat, someone who owns a modern Ferrari is posting a thread regarding the owner of an old vintage Ferrari last seen at Times Squre:
Personally, if I have full oil pressure and the oil temp needle is moving, I wouldn't hold back. But I certainly wouldn't be revving the engine like that in a stationary car.
Just kidding.That guy spun out in a light drizzle! Is he nuts--or what?
Personally, if I have full oil pressure and the oil temp needle is moving, I wouldn't hold back. But I certainly wouldn't be revving the engine like that in a stationary car.
Warm up technology is the same for all cars. The goal is to get the operating tempature up as quickly as possible while causing the least amount of stress on the engine as possible. Nearly opposite goals when you think about it.
No engine no matter how well engineered is designed to rev high when cold. You'll know where the engine is "comfortable" cold. For most, it's anywhere from 1800 - 3000. Maybe Ferraris are a little higher, but I doubt it.
So, how to get it operating tempature quickly. Drive it. As soon as I have oil pressure, I put it in gear and start out. I don't start the car until I'm ready to drive. Then, TAKE IT EASY. If you have a busy high speed street, you might want to not drive it cold, taking the long way to warm up.
I don't care, unless an accident must be avoided, I don't get on the car until the OIL tempature is in the normal range. That is usually twice as long as coolant tempature times. The steady part-throttle work of the engine will warm it up the quickest while not stressing cold parts. The action of moving a car at the low to mid range of cruising RPM is what I've found to be optimal in bringing the engine up to operating tempature.
I suppose a lot of people do "what the experts do" or what their buddy does. If a new Ferrari owner sees a guy blipping toward redline after start-up, he figures, "he must know what he's doing". It probably doesn't help matters that the Ferrari's can do this and sound bad-ass doing it.
I'm always willing to listen to people's opinion on the subject, but you've gotta back it up: Factory recommendations, ASE study, someone with "cred" (aka Larry Carley, etc.) making the case.
No engine no matter how well engineered is designed to rev high when cold. You'll know where the engine is "comfortable" cold. For most, it's anywhere from 1800 - 3000. Maybe Ferraris are a little higher, but I doubt it.
So, how to get it operating tempature quickly. Drive it. As soon as I have oil pressure, I put it in gear and start out. I don't start the car until I'm ready to drive. Then, TAKE IT EASY. If you have a busy high speed street, you might want to not drive it cold, taking the long way to warm up.
I don't care, unless an accident must be avoided, I don't get on the car until the OIL tempature is in the normal range. That is usually twice as long as coolant tempature times. The steady part-throttle work of the engine will warm it up the quickest while not stressing cold parts. The action of moving a car at the low to mid range of cruising RPM is what I've found to be optimal in bringing the engine up to operating tempature.
I suppose a lot of people do "what the experts do" or what their buddy does. If a new Ferrari owner sees a guy blipping toward redline after start-up, he figures, "he must know what he's doing". It probably doesn't help matters that the Ferrari's can do this and sound bad-ass doing it.
I'm always willing to listen to people's opinion on the subject, but you've gotta back it up: Factory recommendations, ASE study, someone with "cred" (aka Larry Carley, etc.) making the case.
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Chris Coios
Letting a vintage V-12 warm up for some minutes until you see the temperature needles move is wise. The oil pressure will normalize avoiding excess pressure on seals and thorough lubrication. Modest driving until full warm-up is at least as important for the gearbox to save the synchros.
The business of blipping the throttle repeatedly on a cold engine, is a bad idea in my opinion, on any traditionally carburated engine. One may enjoy the noise and the attention of this routine, but the reality is that with every blip, the accelerator pump shoots a quantity of raw gasoline down the throats, which simply washes away the oil film on the cylinders. The accelerator pump, as I understand it, is for just that, pumping some extra fuel to transition the engine speed on acceleration, avoiding momentary starvation as the throttles open. Steady RPM at a level that the engine runs smoothly is I think the best warm-up. I suppose the computer controlled injection systems mitigate this, but at least with a Weber, every stomp of the pedal is a stroke of the pump.
As an aside, I've been told it takes a good 45 minutes to an hour running to thoroughly warm an engine to the point that moisture (by-product of combustion) is driven from the oil. So this winter in the north, if your car is in storage, better to not start the car at all, than to go out and exercise the motor for 15 minutes, thinking you are doing some good!
My two cents, Chris
The business of blipping the throttle repeatedly on a cold engine, is a bad idea in my opinion, on any traditionally carburated engine. One may enjoy the noise and the attention of this routine, but the reality is that with every blip, the accelerator pump shoots a quantity of raw gasoline down the throats, which simply washes away the oil film on the cylinders. The accelerator pump, as I understand it, is for just that, pumping some extra fuel to transition the engine speed on acceleration, avoiding momentary starvation as the throttles open. Steady RPM at a level that the engine runs smoothly is I think the best warm-up. I suppose the computer controlled injection systems mitigate this, but at least with a Weber, every stomp of the pedal is a stroke of the pump.
As an aside, I've been told it takes a good 45 minutes to an hour running to thoroughly warm an engine to the point that moisture (by-product of combustion) is driven from the oil. So this winter in the north, if your car is in storage, better to not start the car at all, than to go out and exercise the motor for 15 minutes, thinking you are doing some good!
My two cents, Chris
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jcwconsult
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:55 am
- Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Warm-up question new vs. old
"As an aside, I've been told it takes a good 45 minutes to an hour running to thoroughly warm an engine to the point that moisture (by-product of combustion) is driven from the oil. So this winter in the north, if your car is in storage, better to not start the car at all, than to go out and exercise the motor for 15 minutes, thinking you are doing some good! "
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This matches the advice of Ferrari serviceman Terry Myr in Michigan. He says to put the car away fully hot if it will sit for awhile and do NOT go start and run it periodically for short periods. He also suggests having the last tank of fuel before storage be racing gas. because he says it evaporates with little or no gummy deposits.
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This matches the advice of Ferrari serviceman Terry Myr in Michigan. He says to put the car away fully hot if it will sit for awhile and do NOT go start and run it periodically for short periods. He also suggests having the last tank of fuel before storage be racing gas. because he says it evaporates with little or no gummy deposits.
Jim Walker
365 GT 2+2 #12451
365 GT 2+2 #12451
Listen to Chris, those cool dudes revving up cars with quick jabs of the throttle are dumping raw gas down the cylinders. Ever heard people saying old Ferraris have a tendancy to foul plugs, well it is because they wash down the cylingers and spark plugs with gas causing a no-go.
I have seen blown oil pumps on Alfa-Romeo engines from high rpm's cold, and FRAM oil filters erupt when a stone cold Ferrari V-12 nearly redlines upon start up.
I have seen blown oil pumps on Alfa-Romeo engines from high rpm's cold, and FRAM oil filters erupt when a stone cold Ferrari V-12 nearly redlines upon start up.
Stephan,
I am always careful when driving it cold. While these guys were making their engines shriek, I just puttered away. That said, my car runs great except for one issue: it smokes when it’s hot, not on start-up, not for the first half hour, just when hot. Seems most prevalent when hitting the gas after coasting but is also noticeable at other times. Compression and leakdown is great on all cylinders hot and cold. Any ideas?
Regards,
Art S.
I am always careful when driving it cold. While these guys were making their engines shriek, I just puttered away. That said, my car runs great except for one issue: it smokes when it’s hot, not on start-up, not for the first half hour, just when hot. Seems most prevalent when hitting the gas after coasting but is also noticeable at other times. Compression and leakdown is great on all cylinders hot and cold. Any ideas?
Regards,
Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919
