fuel lines

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andrew
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:58 pm
Location: santa barbara, california

fuel lines

Post by andrew »

Hi everyone,

I've always been bothered by the nonoriginal fuel line in my 330 2+2 and, now that it shows a very minor leak, I have a (more) legitimate excuse to replace it with the original yellow line.

Aside from the astronomical prices for these lines, I've run into another problem. After talking with Geoffrey Ohland at Partsource, among others, it seems that these lines have a tendency to degrade quickly due to additives in the fuel in some areas of the world (and I'm in the additive capital of the world -- California). Consequently, replacing it with the original line, although cosmetically nice, seems foolish. Some have recommended Aeroquip fuel line as an alternative.

I'm curious to hear what others think of this problem, and what potential solutions people might have. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

- Andrew
'64 330 America s/n 5109
Deane
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:43 pm
Location: Cupertino. CA

Post by Deane »

I once put "Rotten Robbie" gas in my 330, which had otherwise enjoyed BP or Chevron. One yellow fuel line started dripping within a week. I replaced the fuel line and will now stick to Chevron, just in case. Otherwise no problems with 5 years of bay area gas, using yellow fuel lines.
Deane
'67 330GTS (gone but not forgotten)
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lukek
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:34 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by lukek »

I have had issues with leaks at joints, but this had to with my Alfa mechanic not knowing what he was doing with regard to the metal collars and knowing the tricks on how to get a seal (written up on this site, too). I have since been taking the car to a Ferrari guy in San Mateo, or doing the work myself. You are probably OK with the additives, it might be an issue in a longer time frame (10-15 years).
If I remember, there were 3 grades of fule lines when I was shopping 2 years ago:

1. Concours correct yellow, but fragile, and not recommended for a driver
2. Yellow, almost look like the real deal, and suitable for driver
3. Random stuff that happens to be the same diameter, using wrong fittings (not the ferrules)




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Ex 1963 Ferrari 250 GTE, 99 Modena 360, 11 Maserati QPorte S, 08 merc gl550, 67 Cadillac Coupe DeVille Convertible, 2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale S, 1991 Ducati 907i.e.
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tyang
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Post by tyang »

Hi Guys,

Geoff and I have discussed the leaking fuel lines and I am taking a close look at my fittings for leaks. So far, things are dry. I used Hylomar to seal the fittings, and hope that they will hold.

Luke, I edited you post so your pictures would post. You need to "enable BBCode" in your post, and do not use spaces when inserting your url. Now that wasn't hard, was it?

Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Jimmyr
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, AZ

Post by Jimmyr »

When installing old fittings on the ends of new hoses be sure to clean the fitting area that inserts into the hose very well. Some old hose material or sealant could cause drips. I wire brush them well, or have them replated. After applying a gas proof sealant to the fitting such as the mentioned Hylomar or Permatex Ultra gas proof gasket sealant, be sure to let it set up at least overnight before pressuring up the system. I prefer using new copper washers on all applicable areas in place of the fiber ones - just my preferance. Jim Riff
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lukek
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Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by lukek »

sorry, one more try

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Ex 1963 Ferrari 250 GTE, 99 Modena 360, 11 Maserati QPorte S, 08 merc gl550, 67 Cadillac Coupe DeVille Convertible, 2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale S, 1991 Ducati 907i.e.
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David Booth
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Location: Vista, California
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Post by David Booth »

The way I understand it, this is a potentially disastrous problem for those of us on this forum in the Golden State. The owner of the shop that's doing the metal work and paint on my cabriolet reports that starting back about August, California gas stations began selling a gasoline with additives that literally dissolve holes in the original yellow wire-wrapped vintage Ferrari fuel lines. Not the fittings, and joint sealing has nothing to do with it. We're talking about stuff that literally attacks the older rubber compound and presto, you've got a major fuel leak at the very least, and a mucked-up fuel system or a major fire at worst.

Replacing the fuel lines with modern ones doesn't solve the whole problem either, in all probability. Also potentially at risk would be the rubber diaphragm in the electric fuel pump at the back of the car, and the one in the mechanical pump at the front of the motor too.

This is a guy who has cars (very nice ones) at Concorso every year, and whose information I have no reason to mistrust.
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
jsa330
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:41 am
Location: Dallas, Texas

Post by jsa330 »

Deane wrote:I once put "Rotten Robbie" gas in my 330, which had otherwise enjoyed BP or Chevron. One yellow fuel line started dripping within a week. I replaced the fuel line and will now stick to Chevron, just in case. Otherwise no problems with 5 years of bay area gas, using yellow fuel lines.
What's "Rotten Robbie"? It must be some kind of California thing. I use Mobil premium unleaded (I hope it doesn't have anything to do with that ) with some Marvel oil and Red Line lead additive. No fuel system problems.

I've still got the original yellow lines-they've discolored over 40 years to a really neat marbled golden brown-and I would certainly not want to lose them, expensive or not. Luke's Ferrari guy, Johannes Huwyler, pointed out their aesthetic qualities to me while my car was at his shop, and strongly advised against replacing them.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
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lukek
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Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by lukek »

in the SF Bay Area we only have one refinery (it likes to catch on fire, too), so other than the additives added at the station, it is all the same gas.
All that "get the Tiger in your tank" stuff is mostly marketing BS.
Ex 1963 Ferrari 250 GTE, 99 Modena 360, 11 Maserati QPorte S, 08 merc gl550, 67 Cadillac Coupe DeVille Convertible, 2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale S, 1991 Ducati 907i.e.
tim
Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:48 pm
Location: sacramento, ca

Post by tim »

Greetings... Here in Callifornia, we have something called RFG or Reformulated Gasoline. It got a lot of bad press amongst the collector car guys. Made their cars leak. I read an SAE paper on this as I was concerned about the yellow lines in my car. These lines have been in place for about 20 years. The main problem is fuel line, diaphragm, and gasket materials are all designed to swell when wetted with gas. RFG does not cause as much swelling in older materials as did the old gas. If you had old lines and new gas, you might have a leak. My Ferrari has shown no leakage. The only problem I've had was in my 61 Morgan. I hadn't driven it for about 3 months I'd been driving the 66 morgan)and when I started it, the fuel pump leaked. Tighten the screws and all was fine. Then when I filled it, the filler hose to tank junction leaked. Tighten the hose clamp and no leak.
1964 330GT 5769 -the big yellow taxi 61&66 Morgan +4's Daimler SP250 Turner 950S and some other dull stuff plus a brand Mercedes C300 4matic
xs10shl
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Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by xs10shl »

luke, where did you find the "almost the real deal" fuel hoses? Some of mine are looking a little tired, so I thought I'd take a stab at replacing them.
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lukek
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:34 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by lukek »

Back then I got them from trutlands, before they moved and consolidated inventories with maranello auto parts.
You might also try GT Car Parts in Arizona. The seem to have decent prices and very nice customer service. I get all my DIY stuff from them that is service related. They even had the correct Ansa exhaust for my car.

thx
luke
Ex 1963 Ferrari 250 GTE, 99 Modena 360, 11 Maserati QPorte S, 08 merc gl550, 67 Cadillac Coupe DeVille Convertible, 2008 Ducati Hypermotard S, 2006 MV Agusta Brutale S, 1991 Ducati 907i.e.
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