I Live in Virginia and I drive my car 3-4 times per week. My garage is about 45 degrees in the winter. Here's what happens when I start it up:
Turn on Autoflux and wait till the ticking slows (15-30 secs). Choke on (its harder to start without it). Press accelerator several times. Then crank engine while giving it gas- nothing. Try again-nothing. Try again- engine fires then dies. 4th or 5th time- fires up and stays running. Thereafter the car runs perfect. Warm starts are no problem.
Is this within normal limits?
If not, am I doing any damage to the engine (I can live with the inconvenience)?
While driving the amp meter is at +40 while in motion even during a long drive. Am I depleting the battery with starting car up ?
Thanks,
Dan
Is My 330 Abnormally Hard to Start?
A simple timing check and carb idle adjustment could help. On the Weber top cover is a brass slotted screw with "I"and "E"; for winter the pointer should be toward "I". How do the plugs look? As for the charging, check the voltage when rpm is at least 2500, if the voltage does not exceed 14.4 Volts or so then possibly the battery has a problem. If the voltage keeps going up with RPM above these limits then the regulator may be bad. If the battery has less than 12.6 Volts when the engine is off possibly the battery has a bad cell and takes heavy charging current all the time. This could also lead to slow cranking, and on a high mileage motor, not strong enough to overcome cyl losses and is hard to start.
Dan,
I think I just pump the pedal a little while its turning over-Mine sometimes takes a few tries depending on how recently its run, and it usually starts with what sounds like less than 12 cylinders, with the others joining in over 10 seconds or so. You might be giving it too much gas with a full choke and pedal too. Can you smell gas before it starts? I think the important thing is to not run the starter for too long. GIve it a few seconds of cranking and then a rest in between tries. Continuous cranking is bad for the starter motor. I think the manual gives some ideas on this.
Mine is usually much harder to start when hot.
I think I just pump the pedal a little while its turning over-Mine sometimes takes a few tries depending on how recently its run, and it usually starts with what sounds like less than 12 cylinders, with the others joining in over 10 seconds or so. You might be giving it too much gas with a full choke and pedal too. Can you smell gas before it starts? I think the important thing is to not run the starter for too long. GIve it a few seconds of cranking and then a rest in between tries. Continuous cranking is bad for the starter motor. I think the manual gives some ideas on this.
Mine is usually much harder to start when hot.
64 330gt 2+2 #6413
Dan,
Mine is usually cranky in the winter - exactly the same starting process as yours. I don't know if anything is damaged by this process, but I don't like leaving the starter on as long as I need to.
I'm getting a tune up and valve adjustment from Francois in a few weeks. I'll let you know how it effects things once the master has laid hands upon my motor.
Regards,
Art S.
Mine is usually cranky in the winter - exactly the same starting process as yours. I don't know if anything is damaged by this process, but I don't like leaving the starter on as long as I need to.
I'm getting a tune up and valve adjustment from Francois in a few weeks. I'll let you know how it effects things once the master has laid hands upon my motor.
Regards,
Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919
Hi Dan,
I would also check to see how well tuned the engine is. All the little things slightly below par adds up when trying to start the car in a COLD start situation. How charged is your battery? I noticed the drain on the battery from the starter will not send enough voltage to the coil and give the engine a weak spark.
On a side note, always keep a close eye on oil pressure when starting in extremely cold temps. I've seen weaker oil filters blow apart on initial start-up.
Tom
I would also check to see how well tuned the engine is. All the little things slightly below par adds up when trying to start the car in a COLD start situation. How charged is your battery? I noticed the drain on the battery from the starter will not send enough voltage to the coil and give the engine a weak spark.
On a side note, always keep a close eye on oil pressure when starting in extremely cold temps. I've seen weaker oil filters blow apart on initial start-up.
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
Does this only work if the choke is operating?Jimmyr wrote:A simple timing check and carb idle adjustment could help. On the Weber top cover is a brass slotted screw with "I"and "E"; for winter the pointer should be toward "I".
My choke has been disconnected by a previous owner, or by his mechanic. The startup is similar to what Dan described. (Dan, how different is your startup procedure when it's warm? Is it similar?)
I also found that starting it in neutral with the clutch pedal down takes a little bit of load off the engine, and makes it a little easier to start.
I'll be curious to see what Art has to say after a proper tune-up and valve adjustment. I'm going to give my car the same treatment in the spring.
--Matt
For my Daytona, I turn on the ignition, wait for the fuel pump to slow, give it three stabs of the accelerator, no choke, foot off the gas pedal, and it fires right up. I mean right up - I doubt the engine makes a complete revolution before it fires. It even started up like this after sitting outside overnight in the low 30's last weekend when my wife and I were staying at a B&B. I do have to feather the throttle a little to keep it running.
-steve
-steve
Dan:
The ease of starting my 330 is in direct relationship to the amount it is driven, summer or winter. I drive less in the cold part of winter and very hot part of summer.
Consistently, the car turns right over on the first or second 3-sec. crank in 75F+ temps. Yesterday, I took it out in around 40F weather after not being driven in 5 days and your startup experience and mine were almost exactly the same.
I'm on my way out again in a few minutes, we'll see what happens.
The ease of starting my 330 is in direct relationship to the amount it is driven, summer or winter. I drive less in the cold part of winter and very hot part of summer.
Consistently, the car turns right over on the first or second 3-sec. crank in 75F+ temps. Yesterday, I took it out in around 40F weather after not being driven in 5 days and your startup experience and mine were almost exactly the same.
I'm on my way out again in a few minutes, we'll see what happens.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
Thanks to all for the great info.
I just came back from a drive (4th drive in 7 days). I didnt use the choke and it really didnt matter so I wont use unless necessary. (The choke does work). I suspect that since the amp are always +40 while driving the battery is the likely culprit if there is a problem. I dont use the starter long- if it doesnt fire up I shut the starter off. Tom, the engine should be tuned fine as it received a full tune this summer and I dont notice any problems when driving. A friend, Bill Ebert, who used to own a 330 drove my car and said all was fine. Matt, in the warm weather the start up is pretty much the same. It seems some of you have the same start up situation as mine, so maybe that's the way alot of these are? I listened to Kerry Chesbro's CD last night- the part where he starts his car- and his actually sounded harder to start than mine.
I guess my main concern is if I am doing any harm to the car. If not, it really doesnt bother me. Any thoughts???
Thanks,
Dan
I just came back from a drive (4th drive in 7 days). I didnt use the choke and it really didnt matter so I wont use unless necessary. (The choke does work). I suspect that since the amp are always +40 while driving the battery is the likely culprit if there is a problem. I dont use the starter long- if it doesnt fire up I shut the starter off. Tom, the engine should be tuned fine as it received a full tune this summer and I dont notice any problems when driving. A friend, Bill Ebert, who used to own a 330 drove my car and said all was fine. Matt, in the warm weather the start up is pretty much the same. It seems some of you have the same start up situation as mine, so maybe that's the way alot of these are? I listened to Kerry Chesbro's CD last night- the part where he starts his car- and his actually sounded harder to start than mine.
I guess my main concern is if I am doing any harm to the car. If not, it really doesnt bother me. Any thoughts???
Thanks,
Dan
Dan:
In regard to my drive this PM, the temp was closer to 50F today and the engine caught on the first crank, but it took 3 or 4 cranks to get it idling.
The car has been tuned by a vintage-qualified Ferrari mechanic and runs nothing short of beautifully; from my own experience, and reading the comments of others, I just think it takes more doing to get the fuel flowing smoothly to the three deuces and all that oil warmed up on a cold day, especially if you haven't driven it in a few days.
Jimmyr's suggestions seem well worth looking at; I'm going to take a peek when I can get my car off the back burner again.
In regard to my drive this PM, the temp was closer to 50F today and the engine caught on the first crank, but it took 3 or 4 cranks to get it idling.
The car has been tuned by a vintage-qualified Ferrari mechanic and runs nothing short of beautifully; from my own experience, and reading the comments of others, I just think it takes more doing to get the fuel flowing smoothly to the three deuces and all that oil warmed up on a cold day, especially if you haven't driven it in a few days.
Jimmyr's suggestions seem well worth looking at; I'm going to take a peek when I can get my car off the back burner again.
Current: 1983 308 GTS
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
R.I.P: 330 2+2 s/n 5409
Thanks for the reply, Jimmy.
I've been studying the 330 GT service manual's section on carbs, and it's making my head hurt. (It's also harder because my car's in storage, so I can't go look at the actual carbs for reference.)
Here's a picture of the startup circuit:
If the choke isn't in use, what initiates the starting circuit? As compared to the idle cicuit or the accelerating cicuits, which are dependent on the throttle valves' position? Or does the carb use the startup circuit if there's low vacuum from the engine?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
I've been studying the 330 GT service manual's section on carbs, and it's making my head hurt. (It's also harder because my car's in storage, so I can't go look at the actual carbs for reference.)
Here's a picture of the startup circuit:
If the choke isn't in use, what initiates the starting circuit? As compared to the idle cicuit or the accelerating cicuits, which are dependent on the throttle valves' position? Or does the carb use the startup circuit if there's low vacuum from the engine?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
Hi Matt and Merry Christmas to all,
I have not had a chance to adjust the carbs yet but now that I think of it, the car was easier to start in the summer, so this adjustment may help. I had the battery and alternator checked out and they are fine. My mech who has alot of vintage experience suggested it may be my original elec fuel pump making car hard to start. However he didnt think i was doing any harm as is as long as I dont stay on the starter too long. Its funny how many different theories have been presented to this fairly common (as I understand it) situation.
BTW, Are you going to go to Reading Concours this May? I'd love to see your car. I'll be driving my 330 up,
Dan
I have not had a chance to adjust the carbs yet but now that I think of it, the car was easier to start in the summer, so this adjustment may help. I had the battery and alternator checked out and they are fine. My mech who has alot of vintage experience suggested it may be my original elec fuel pump making car hard to start. However he didnt think i was doing any harm as is as long as I dont stay on the starter too long. Its funny how many different theories have been presented to this fairly common (as I understand it) situation.
BTW, Are you going to go to Reading Concours this May? I'd love to see your car. I'll be driving my 330 up,
Dan