330 front brake cylinders

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steve lapp
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330 front brake cylinders

Post by steve lapp » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:58 pm

Hell:

Does anyone know which models of jaguar (Mk 10?) have the same front wheel brake cylinders as the 330's, I am working out some repair possibilities for a car I am interested in.

Any comments on stainless sleeving versus brass and pressed versus silver soldered in place?

Thanks

Steve
Steve Lapp
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)

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Yale
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Post by Yale » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:45 am

Dear Steve,

Ah yes the old how do I upgrade my brakes question. No answers from me as I have asked the same question and gotton nowhere from anyone who has actually done something different then what the factory sent out. Plenty of folks will comment on what is possible or what they have seen on websites that mention larger Jaguar brakes that fit Ferrari 330's, or stainless steel sleeves, etc etc. Haven't yet heard from some Ferrari Hydrocal owner or any other brake evolver yet.

Francois, the ever one for originality says "non" when asked about -affordable and reasonanble- changes that don't involve changing the whole system out for another makes. And yet he is one to up-grade the 275 brakes (to larger 330 calipers!).

Anyway, if you take the plunge please keep us fully informed. Best, Yale

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330GT
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Post by 330GT » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:56 am

I'll put a plug in for White Post Restorations (http://www.whitepost.com/).

I've had my front brakes and brake master cylinder rebuilt/relined by them. Two comments on their service.

1. After I got the front brakes relined, one side was dragging. I talked to a local Ferrari mechanic, Carlo Durante and he suggested that the spring inside the caliper that pulls the piston back might be broken. I talked to White Post and they thought it might be a partially collapsing brake line. This would let fluid (under pressure) through to actuate the brake, but it wouldn't flow back easily, thus causing the brake to drag. White Post (under their lifetime warranty) rebuilt the brake anyway (and didn't find a problem). I also replaced the brake line at the same time. When I cut it, I did find that the inside was collapsing.

2. I had the brake master cylinder fail a week before planning on driving the car to the Monterey events last year. I sent it overnight to White Post. They received it the next morning, rebuilt it and shipped it out that afternoon. I had it back in the car 48 hours after I took it out.

One can argue the brass vs. stainless steel reline, etc., but I know that the service that White Post has given me has earned them my lifetime business.
Regards, Kerry
http://www.330gt.com 330 GT Registry
http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari 250 PF Coupe 1643GT, 330 GT 2+2 8755GT, 308 GTS 23605

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:10 am

Hi Kerry,

I'm glad you had such a good experience with White Post. Since I'm in touch with a lot of people who have used them, I've also heard of bad experiences with White Post. Francois has stopped using them for Boosters. Perhaps in their growth, there was a time when their quality control went down, but I'm hoping from your experiences, things are back up to their normal standard.

When my brake cylinders were redone, Francois sent mine to someone who sleeved them in brass, and so far, no leaks or other problems.

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

daffy
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Post by daffy » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:17 pm

I bought new rear from Hye-Dra-Cyl in Montana. Excellent quality and no leaks at all.
Greg Hagopian told me they will start up production for front cylinders in May-June this year.
I paid around $ 800 for the rear ones.

www.hyedracyl.com/main.htlm
330 GT 2+2 Serie II VIN 8495, 1966
Fiat DINO Coupe 246, 1971
Fiat Ritmo Abarth 1988
ISO Milano Diva 1959
Audi Urquattro 1984
Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, 2006

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David Booth
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Post by David Booth » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:30 pm

I've also used White Post for my caliper pistons, master cylinder and brake booster with no complaints.

The other half of the original post dealt with swapping other Dunlop parts for the Ferrari originals. Although I can't speak to the 330s, I know the Dunlop brake parts on the 250s interchanged generally with other high performance cars of the period including Jags and the big Lancias.

But generally is the key word here. I've also found complete incompatabilities between thiings like the caliper pistons (length of the brass post that mates with the brake pad). My best advice is to make sure you can return the "other make" parts if they don't quite work.
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT

"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."

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Art S.
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Post by Art S. » Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:06 pm

Tom Y,

Were your brakes redone in brass or bronze? I thought Francois said the guy did them in bronze.

Regards,

Art S.
1965 330 2+2 series 2 7919

grahamdelooze
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Post by grahamdelooze » Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:01 pm

looks to me like the big bolt casting could be machined to take a girling cylinder seal and 54mm piston.
330 GT 6159

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Yale
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Post by Yale » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:44 pm

Here's another place that has upgrades for the Jaguar brakes that our 330's also use:


http://www.bassettjag.com/performance_modification.htm

Ultimate Wilwood Brake Kit

By Bassett’s Jaguar



We feel that our new upgrade package is the best that is offered. It features radial mounted 4 piston Wilwood calipers (these are much more stable than even the ear mounted billet Wilwood calipers available elsewhere), heavy duty, balanced, directional ventilated rotors, lightweight rotor hats, heavy duty caliper mounting brackets, Wilwood polymatrix brake pads, braided stainless steel lines, Wilwood Hi Temp brake fluid, and a hardware kit for mounting. Another feature — they can be used with stock wheels!



The kits, are available for 4.2 E Type Series 1 and E Type Series 2 at present.

More versions will be ready shortly.


Stephanm
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Post by Stephanm » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:45 pm

I installed MK-10 Jag front pistons on the front of a 275 GTB and put bigger rear pistons on as well.
We have a phrase around our shop, modify one thing--no matter how insignificant and you will need to change 13 other things.
When I installed those bigger pots, the master cyl needed to be bored out in order to move enough fluid in a quick stop. Not a cool job. I hate break fluid because of it's effect on paint, skin and nervous system so anytime I have to remove-reinstall brake hydraulics I am frusterated.

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:43 pm

My pistons looked like brass to me!

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

steve lapp
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Post by steve lapp » Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:34 am

Thanks for all comments - they have made me think....

Bronze will wear better than brass, however I do not know if brass will wear unacceptably with the driving most of your cars would get. There is always the remote possibility that the sleeve gets pushed out by hydraulic pressure, since a portion of it receives pressure form the inside of the cylinder, hence the idea that silver brazing is required. Here is another thought, if one switches to silicon fluid, then why not sleeve in a medium carbon steel, it will take a good finish for the bore and no corrosion will occur with silicon fluid. I will investigate use of a high temperature loctite that can be used in pressing sleeves into cylinders, I believe such a product is made.

I converted my Healey and BMW to silicon over ten years ago and have not had one drip of fluid leak and no other problems (but did not have to sleeve). I have a small jar of dot 4 and silicon fluid and no strange things seem to be happening, one fluid sits on top of the other like oil and water.

Am off to a British autojumble this weekend, shall keep eyes peeled for cheap MK10 calipers!!

cheers
Steve Lapp
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)

Hairy
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Post by Hairy » Thu Mar 31, 2005 4:08 pm

:!: Guys this might the solution for your Dunlop problems:

http://www.roelofsparts.com/lijsten/par ... html#alloy

steve lapp
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Post by steve lapp » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:14 pm

Hello brake compatriots:

Can anyone send me a photo of a 330 2+2 front brake caliper and cylinder, I will see if anything matches at the auto jumble and report back. Is stock piston diameter 54 mm?

Earlier i came across a photo of a refurbished nickle plated caliper (Kerry's??), but cannot find it for the life of me now, if you have the URL for that, great.

lappstve@kos.net

Thanks
Steve Lapp
Ontario Canada
2013 Nissan Leaf, 2002 Prius, 56 Healey 100-4, 74 BMW 2002, 330 GT 2+2 s/n 6241, 54 Dodge M152 (listed by decreasing fuel economy)

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tyang
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Post by tyang » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:37 pm

Hi Steve,

Here's a picture of the front brake pistons.
Image

Tom
'63 330 America #5053

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