Posted by JAime Garchitorena
Well like you Ive almost decided to be a Ferreri owner although this one will need more work than yours. Fortunately labor is cheap here in the Philippines but unfortunately technical expertise as far as Ferraris is somewhat lacking.
The previous owner seems to have lost ( dont ask) the cylinder head(s) which is the greatest obstacle in my making the purchase. Of course Im trying to find it but just in case, can you suggest anythinng to encourage or dissuade me from continuing with this project. Can this part be bought anywhere and is it worth looking for?
Have lots of questions generated while reading your chronicle. Ill wait for your response to this query.
Great job and hope to hear from you.
thinking of restoring a 365
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Tom
Is this a 365 2+2? 365GTB4, 365GTC4, and the list goes on! The reason why this can make a difference is the type of heads you will be looking for. On the 2+2, they will single overhead cams, and with the GTB4 and GTC4, they will be four cams (two cams per cylinder). Either way, I don't think they'll be cheap, let alone finding one in the Philppines!
You also have to consider the price of the car when it is finished. Although Labor is cheap in the Philippines, parts will probably have to be bought from the U.S. or Europe, driving up the final restoration cost. If we're talking about 3652+2s, I've seen completed ones selling from $35,000-$55,000, with an occasional one really out of the ordinary falling outside this price range. Prices may be higher in the Philippines because of rarity, but parts to rebuild the engine will easily run 3-4K. What kind of shape is the rest of the car?
Tom
Is this a 365 2+2? 365GTB4, 365GTC4, and the list goes on! The reason why this can make a difference is the type of heads you will be looking for. On the 2+2, they will single overhead cams, and with the GTB4 and GTC4, they will be four cams (two cams per cylinder). Either way, I don't think they'll be cheap, let alone finding one in the Philppines!
You also have to consider the price of the car when it is finished. Although Labor is cheap in the Philippines, parts will probably have to be bought from the U.S. or Europe, driving up the final restoration cost. If we're talking about 3652+2s, I've seen completed ones selling from $35,000-$55,000, with an occasional one really out of the ordinary falling outside this price range. Prices may be higher in the Philippines because of rarity, but parts to rebuild the engine will easily run 3-4K. What kind of shape is the rest of the car?
Tom
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by ChrisR
Another thing, take a look at 365's that have already been restored. The asking price for those cars will let you know what kind of cash is involved here.
Another thing, take a look at 365's that have already been restored. The asking price for those cars will let you know what kind of cash is involved here.
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by ChrisR
Another thing, take a look at 365's that have already been restored. The asking price for those cars will let you know what kind of cash is involved here.
Another thing, take a look at 365's that have already been restored. The asking price for those cars will let you know what kind of cash is involved here.
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Jaime Garchitorena
Thanks for responding Tom...you too Chris...
Its a 2+2 and as far as the body is concerned well my biggest fear is that the car isnt exactly stored very well. You know the story...leave it out in the open, owner thought he could do it in a week kinda thing.
Some rust spots on the hood and damp on the carpet.
Personally I think the owner is asking too much for something in this condition( approximately USD8K) and I dont think he'll find a buyer or will get around to reviving it soon.
Its just killing me that its sitting so neglected.
I was reading over the job order form for prices of parts on the engine rebuild you have posted and its a bit of a shocker as well ( specially since our currency isnt in the best of health these days).
I checked out some of the prices for cars in better than just running condition and say something around that 35k range you mentioned so I definitley think the car is now over priced. Still its not the destination right?
Ill try to get some photos.
So tell me what you guys think.
Thanks again.
Thanks for responding Tom...you too Chris...
Its a 2+2 and as far as the body is concerned well my biggest fear is that the car isnt exactly stored very well. You know the story...leave it out in the open, owner thought he could do it in a week kinda thing.
Some rust spots on the hood and damp on the carpet.
Personally I think the owner is asking too much for something in this condition( approximately USD8K) and I dont think he'll find a buyer or will get around to reviving it soon.
Its just killing me that its sitting so neglected.
I was reading over the job order form for prices of parts on the engine rebuild you have posted and its a bit of a shocker as well ( specially since our currency isnt in the best of health these days).
I checked out some of the prices for cars in better than just running condition and say something around that 35k range you mentioned so I definitley think the car is now over priced. Still its not the destination right?
Ill try to get some photos.
So tell me what you guys think.
Thanks again.
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Jaime Garchitorena
Thanks for responding Tom...you too Chris...
Its a 2+2 and as far as the body is concerned well my biggest fear is that the car isnt exactly stored very well. You know the story...leave it out in the open, owner thought he could do it in a week kinda thing.
Some rust spots on the hood and damp on the carpet.
Personally I think the owner is asking too much for something in this condition( approximately USD8K) and I dont think he'll find a buyer or will get around to reviving it soon.
Its just killing me that its sitting so neglected.
I was reading over the job order form for prices of parts on the engine rebuild you have posted and its a bit of a shocker as well ( specially since our currency isnt in the best of health these days).
I checked out some of the prices for cars in better than just running condition and say something around that 35k range you mentioned so I definitley think the car is now over priced. Still its not the destination right?
Ill try to get some photos.
So tell me what you guys think.
Thanks again.
Thanks for responding Tom...you too Chris...
Its a 2+2 and as far as the body is concerned well my biggest fear is that the car isnt exactly stored very well. You know the story...leave it out in the open, owner thought he could do it in a week kinda thing.
Some rust spots on the hood and damp on the carpet.
Personally I think the owner is asking too much for something in this condition( approximately USD8K) and I dont think he'll find a buyer or will get around to reviving it soon.
Its just killing me that its sitting so neglected.
I was reading over the job order form for prices of parts on the engine rebuild you have posted and its a bit of a shocker as well ( specially since our currency isnt in the best of health these days).
I checked out some of the prices for cars in better than just running condition and say something around that 35k range you mentioned so I definitley think the car is now over priced. Still its not the destination right?
Ill try to get some photos.
So tell me what you guys think.
Thanks again.
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by tom
Jaime,
As with all restoration projects, the advice is to buy the best example you can afford. You will hardly ever come out on top financially with a basket case, except in rare examples where the value of the car is very high.
With the Ferrari 2+2 cars, they were made in realtively high numbers, but their values are not as high as the 2-seaters, and the costs of restoring them are practically equal. I will never recoup the time I've invested in the restoration of my car if I decide to sell, but I'm doing this as an outlet to my obsession! This, however doesn't make me feel good about it when I'm laying on the floor with undercoating covering my face, and clothes!
If you're looking for a project, no matter what you buy, there will always work to be done with an old car, so don't worry about idle hands! Are you mechnically inclined to do this work yourself? Do you have the room? If you are going to have someone else do the work, can you trust they will do a good job? As you can see from my restoration, there is a lot of room for catastophic mistakes. and avoiding them only comes from having a deep knowledge of how these cars are put together!
Tom
Jaime,
As with all restoration projects, the advice is to buy the best example you can afford. You will hardly ever come out on top financially with a basket case, except in rare examples where the value of the car is very high.
With the Ferrari 2+2 cars, they were made in realtively high numbers, but their values are not as high as the 2-seaters, and the costs of restoring them are practically equal. I will never recoup the time I've invested in the restoration of my car if I decide to sell, but I'm doing this as an outlet to my obsession! This, however doesn't make me feel good about it when I'm laying on the floor with undercoating covering my face, and clothes!
If you're looking for a project, no matter what you buy, there will always work to be done with an old car, so don't worry about idle hands! Are you mechnically inclined to do this work yourself? Do you have the room? If you are going to have someone else do the work, can you trust they will do a good job? As you can see from my restoration, there is a lot of room for catastophic mistakes. and avoiding them only comes from having a deep knowledge of how these cars are put together!
Tom
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by tom
Jaime,
As with all restoration projects, the advice is to buy the best example you can afford. You will hardly ever come out on top financially with a basket case, except in rare examples where the value of the car is very high.
With the Ferrari 2+2 cars, they were made in realtively high numbers, but their values are not as high as the 2-seaters, and the costs of restoring them are practically equal. I will never recoup the time I've invested in the restoration of my car if I decide to sell, but I'm doing this as an outlet to my obsession! This, however doesn't make me feel good about it when I'm laying on the floor with undercoating covering my face, and clothes!
If you're looking for a project, no matter what you buy, there will always work to be done with an old car, so don't worry about idle hands! Are you mechnically inclined to do this work yourself? Do you have the room? If you are going to have someone else do the work, can you trust they will do a good job? As you can see from my restoration, there is a lot of room for catastophic mistakes. and avoiding them only comes from having a deep knowledge of how these cars are put together!
Tom
Jaime,
As with all restoration projects, the advice is to buy the best example you can afford. You will hardly ever come out on top financially with a basket case, except in rare examples where the value of the car is very high.
With the Ferrari 2+2 cars, they were made in realtively high numbers, but their values are not as high as the 2-seaters, and the costs of restoring them are practically equal. I will never recoup the time I've invested in the restoration of my car if I decide to sell, but I'm doing this as an outlet to my obsession! This, however doesn't make me feel good about it when I'm laying on the floor with undercoating covering my face, and clothes!
If you're looking for a project, no matter what you buy, there will always work to be done with an old car, so don't worry about idle hands! Are you mechnically inclined to do this work yourself? Do you have the room? If you are going to have someone else do the work, can you trust they will do a good job? As you can see from my restoration, there is a lot of room for catastophic mistakes. and avoiding them only comes from having a deep knowledge of how these cars are put together!
Tom
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Bryan Phillips
Tom - I have lurked up til now but must say that I love your site! keep it up!
Jaime - I have a 365gt2+2 whose previous owner spent a lot of money in all the right places and did a very nice job. However, the amount of work and $$ it will take to bring the car up that last 10% will be considerable. I can't imagine how much work and $$ a project like the one you are describing will take. Even if you have cheap labor, expertise and knowledge of Ferrari is absolutely necessary to really do it right. While logic would dictate that you wouldn't restore a car if the restoration cost would be more (a lot more) than the car's market value, we all know that logic is not the prime motivator where old Ferraris are concerned. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. As a favor to me and the freaks who track telaio numbers, could you please get the telaio number of this car from the identification plate on the right wheel well in the engine bay and post it on the site?
thanks and good luck!
Tom - I have lurked up til now but must say that I love your site! keep it up!
Jaime - I have a 365gt2+2 whose previous owner spent a lot of money in all the right places and did a very nice job. However, the amount of work and $$ it will take to bring the car up that last 10% will be considerable. I can't imagine how much work and $$ a project like the one you are describing will take. Even if you have cheap labor, expertise and knowledge of Ferrari is absolutely necessary to really do it right. While logic would dictate that you wouldn't restore a car if the restoration cost would be more (a lot more) than the car's market value, we all know that logic is not the prime motivator where old Ferraris are concerned. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. As a favor to me and the freaks who track telaio numbers, could you please get the telaio number of this car from the identification plate on the right wheel well in the engine bay and post it on the site?
thanks and good luck!
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Bryan Phillips
Tom - I have lurked up til now but must say that I love your site! keep it up!
Jaime - I have a 365gt2+2 whose previous owner spent a lot of money in all the right places and did a very nice job. However, the amount of work and $$ it will take to bring the car up that last 10% will be considerable. I can't imagine how much work and $$ a project like the one you are describing will take. Even if you have cheap labor, expertise and knowledge of Ferrari is absolutely necessary to really do it right. While logic would dictate that you wouldn't restore a car if the restoration cost would be more (a lot more) than the car's market value, we all know that logic is not the prime motivator where old Ferraris are concerned. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. As a favor to me and the freaks who track telaio numbers, could you please get the telaio number of this car from the identification plate on the right wheel well in the engine bay and post it on the site?
thanks and good luck!
Tom - I have lurked up til now but must say that I love your site! keep it up!
Jaime - I have a 365gt2+2 whose previous owner spent a lot of money in all the right places and did a very nice job. However, the amount of work and $$ it will take to bring the car up that last 10% will be considerable. I can't imagine how much work and $$ a project like the one you are describing will take. Even if you have cheap labor, expertise and knowledge of Ferrari is absolutely necessary to really do it right. While logic would dictate that you wouldn't restore a car if the restoration cost would be more (a lot more) than the car's market value, we all know that logic is not the prime motivator where old Ferraris are concerned. Good luck in whatever you decide to do. As a favor to me and the freaks who track telaio numbers, could you please get the telaio number of this car from the identification plate on the right wheel well in the engine bay and post it on the site?
thanks and good luck!
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Tom
Bryan,
Thanks for the kind words. Sharing this addiction to these old cars with others has been great!
I agree with you on the high cost of restoration. Although I'm going to have a great car when I'm done, I don't know many people who have the time, and patience to commit to a project like mine.
I think 365 2+2s are beautiful cars, and are the last of the soft feminine pininfarina designs before they went to the more angular cars of the seventies. It's the last of a breed.
Tom
Bryan,
Thanks for the kind words. Sharing this addiction to these old cars with others has been great!
I agree with you on the high cost of restoration. Although I'm going to have a great car when I'm done, I don't know many people who have the time, and patience to commit to a project like mine.
I think 365 2+2s are beautiful cars, and are the last of the soft feminine pininfarina designs before they went to the more angular cars of the seventies. It's the last of a breed.
Tom
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Tom
Bryan,
Thanks for the kind words. Sharing this addiction to these old cars with others has been great!
I agree with you on the high cost of restoration. Although I'm going to have a great car when I'm done, I don't know many people who have the time, and patience to commit to a project like mine.
I think 365 2+2s are beautiful cars, and are the last of the soft feminine pininfarina designs before they went to the more angular cars of the seventies. It's the last of a breed.
Tom
Bryan,
Thanks for the kind words. Sharing this addiction to these old cars with others has been great!
I agree with you on the high cost of restoration. Although I'm going to have a great car when I'm done, I don't know many people who have the time, and patience to commit to a project like mine.
I think 365 2+2s are beautiful cars, and are the last of the soft feminine pininfarina designs before they went to the more angular cars of the seventies. It's the last of a breed.
Tom
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Colin
I have never restored a Ferrari, but have restored lots of less expensive (Pontiac GTO, BMWs, Triumphs, etc.) cars, and I think the same rules hold true for all but the ultra rarest cars. Some of my off-the cuff rules to consider when mulling the purchase of a project car: Never restore a car to turn a profit, because you never will, especially when you factor in your time and labor.
It is always cheaper in the long run to buy a car that is already restored than it is to buy an abused/incomplete/neglected example and try to bring it back.
All other things being equal, a project that is running and driveable at purchase is usually a better deal than a nonrunner. If nothing else, you can at least assess the condition of the engine, driveline and suspension under actual use conditions.
If you really love a car, and it is realistically restorable, by all means have at it. You will likely spend more money than the car will ever be worth, but the theraputic value of making a "dead" thing live again may be worth more than money to you. Kind of like rescuing an abandoned dog from the animal shelter, only much more expensive and without the loyalty in return for your efforts.
Good luck!
Colin
I have never restored a Ferrari, but have restored lots of less expensive (Pontiac GTO, BMWs, Triumphs, etc.) cars, and I think the same rules hold true for all but the ultra rarest cars. Some of my off-the cuff rules to consider when mulling the purchase of a project car: Never restore a car to turn a profit, because you never will, especially when you factor in your time and labor.
It is always cheaper in the long run to buy a car that is already restored than it is to buy an abused/incomplete/neglected example and try to bring it back.
All other things being equal, a project that is running and driveable at purchase is usually a better deal than a nonrunner. If nothing else, you can at least assess the condition of the engine, driveline and suspension under actual use conditions.
If you really love a car, and it is realistically restorable, by all means have at it. You will likely spend more money than the car will ever be worth, but the theraputic value of making a "dead" thing live again may be worth more than money to you. Kind of like rescuing an abandoned dog from the animal shelter, only much more expensive and without the loyalty in return for your efforts.
Good luck!
Colin
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by Tom
Colin,
I totally identify with the resurrection aspect in automotive restoration. As expensive as it has been, it's been worth every penny in therapy!
Tom
Colin,
I totally identify with the resurrection aspect in automotive restoration. As expensive as it has been, it's been worth every penny in therapy!
Tom
Re: thinking of restoring a 365
Posted by G.
Jaime, hindi mo kelangan ng Ferrari. Kyut ka na, nakakatawa pa. Maski bulok na kotse ang i-drive mo, ide-deyt pa din kita. tsup tsup. (hahaha. mag email ka naman, Hudas!)
Jaime, hindi mo kelangan ng Ferrari. Kyut ka na, nakakatawa pa. Maski bulok na kotse ang i-drive mo, ide-deyt pa din kita. tsup tsup. (hahaha. mag email ka naman, Hudas!)