Posted by zac
well here goes my best explaination for your dilema. this is actually still a problem on a lot of modern european cars BMW and mercedes in particular. did you have the block and cylinder heads checked for flatness? I am looking right at my engine block and heads as we speak and the oil returns run along the bottem edge of the block furthest form the head studs so if the head is even slightly cupped that's were its going to leak and the more you tighten the more you torque on the studs the worse it gets. If it were my car I would make real certain that is indeed your leak and that it is not the cam covers leaking and flowing down on the head gaskets. otherwise once oil has saturated the head gasket it has been my experience that its time for a new one.
sorry for the $500.00 bummer
zac
365 2-cam rebuild
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Orso
Zac, thanks for your advice. So, you have in fact experienced that return oil from the valve gear can actually leak past the head gaskets.. That is depressing, because of course it means I will have to reverse my rebuild, and start taking the engine apart again..
The most important question though, is what can I do to get a better result next time? The cylinder heads were in fact machined prior to assembly, to make sure they are flat. The cylinder block was not machined for three reasons:
1. I had noticed no leaks from the head gaskets previously.
2. It is difficult to machine the block without removing the studs, a task which I regard as a high risk operation, if at all possible.
3.If the the block was machined, the cylinder liners must of course be shortened accordingly, a critical operation.
I used new oversize pistons and the original liners have been bored out, and fitted to their original positions. Further, there were some corrosion at the water passages in the block mating surface, so I used Hermetite Yellow to help the head gasket keep water in place. This seems to have been successful.
So, if I take the engine apart agin, remove the heads and get new gaskets, what can I do to prevent the same problem from occurring again?
-Does anyone know of a better head gasket available anywhere? I used original ones which may be 30 years old.
- Anyone with experience of a better gasket dressing than Hermetite? Maybe RTV silicone ? All hints wellcome!
Oh yes, I will check the surfaces again for flatness!
Orso
Zac, thanks for your advice. So, you have in fact experienced that return oil from the valve gear can actually leak past the head gaskets.. That is depressing, because of course it means I will have to reverse my rebuild, and start taking the engine apart again..
The most important question though, is what can I do to get a better result next time? The cylinder heads were in fact machined prior to assembly, to make sure they are flat. The cylinder block was not machined for three reasons:
1. I had noticed no leaks from the head gaskets previously.
2. It is difficult to machine the block without removing the studs, a task which I regard as a high risk operation, if at all possible.
3.If the the block was machined, the cylinder liners must of course be shortened accordingly, a critical operation.
I used new oversize pistons and the original liners have been bored out, and fitted to their original positions. Further, there were some corrosion at the water passages in the block mating surface, so I used Hermetite Yellow to help the head gasket keep water in place. This seems to have been successful.
So, if I take the engine apart agin, remove the heads and get new gaskets, what can I do to prevent the same problem from occurring again?
-Does anyone know of a better head gasket available anywhere? I used original ones which may be 30 years old.
- Anyone with experience of a better gasket dressing than Hermetite? Maybe RTV silicone ? All hints wellcome!
Oh yes, I will check the surfaces again for flatness!
Orso
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Orso
Zac, thanks for your advice. So, you have in fact experienced that return oil from the valve gear can actually leak past the head gaskets.. That is depressing, because of course it means I will have to reverse my rebuild, and start taking the engine apart again..
The most important question though, is what can I do to get a better result next time? The cylinder heads were in fact machined prior to assembly, to make sure they are flat. The cylinder block was not machined for three reasons:
1. I had noticed no leaks from the head gaskets previously.
2. It is difficult to machine the block without removing the studs, a task which I regard as a high risk operation, if at all possible.
3.If the the block was machined, the cylinder liners must of course be shortened accordingly, a critical operation.
I used new oversize pistons and the original liners have been bored out, and fitted to their original positions. Further, there were some corrosion at the water passages in the block mating surface, so I used Hermetite Yellow to help the head gasket keep water in place. This seems to have been successful.
So, if I take the engine apart agin, remove the heads and get new gaskets, what can I do to prevent the same problem from occurring again?
-Does anyone know of a better head gasket available anywhere? I used original ones which may be 30 years old.
- Anyone with experience of a better gasket dressing than Hermetite? Maybe RTV silicone ? All hints wellcome!
Oh yes, I will check the surfaces again for flatness!
Orso
Zac, thanks for your advice. So, you have in fact experienced that return oil from the valve gear can actually leak past the head gaskets.. That is depressing, because of course it means I will have to reverse my rebuild, and start taking the engine apart again..
The most important question though, is what can I do to get a better result next time? The cylinder heads were in fact machined prior to assembly, to make sure they are flat. The cylinder block was not machined for three reasons:
1. I had noticed no leaks from the head gaskets previously.
2. It is difficult to machine the block without removing the studs, a task which I regard as a high risk operation, if at all possible.
3.If the the block was machined, the cylinder liners must of course be shortened accordingly, a critical operation.
I used new oversize pistons and the original liners have been bored out, and fitted to their original positions. Further, there were some corrosion at the water passages in the block mating surface, so I used Hermetite Yellow to help the head gasket keep water in place. This seems to have been successful.
So, if I take the engine apart agin, remove the heads and get new gaskets, what can I do to prevent the same problem from occurring again?
-Does anyone know of a better head gasket available anywhere? I used original ones which may be 30 years old.
- Anyone with experience of a better gasket dressing than Hermetite? Maybe RTV silicone ? All hints wellcome!
Oh yes, I will check the surfaces again for flatness!
Orso
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Orso
Zac, thanks for your advice. So, you have in fact experienced that return oil from the valve gear can actually leak past the head gaskets.. That is depressing, because of course it means I will have to reverse my rebuild, and start taking the engine apart again..
The most important question though, is what can I do to get a better result next time? The cylinder heads were in fact machined prior to assembly, to make sure they are flat. The cylinder block was not machined for three reasons:
1. I had noticed no leaks from the head gaskets previously.
2. It is difficult to machine the block without removing the studs, a task which I regard as a high risk operation, if at all possible.
3.If the the block was machined, the cylinder liners must of course be shortened accordingly, a critical operation.
I used new oversize pistons and the original liners have been bored out, and fitted to their original positions. Further, there were some corrosion at the water passages in the block mating surface, so I used Hermetite Yellow to help the head gasket keep water in place. This seems to have been successful.
So, if I take the engine apart agin, remove the heads and get new gaskets, what can I do to prevent the same problem from occurring again?
-Does anyone know of a better head gasket available anywhere? I used original ones which may be 30 years old.
- Anyone with experience of a better gasket dressing than Hermetite? Maybe RTV silicone ? All hints wellcome!
Oh yes, I will check the surfaces again for flatness!
Orso
Zac, thanks for your advice. So, you have in fact experienced that return oil from the valve gear can actually leak past the head gaskets.. That is depressing, because of course it means I will have to reverse my rebuild, and start taking the engine apart again..
The most important question though, is what can I do to get a better result next time? The cylinder heads were in fact machined prior to assembly, to make sure they are flat. The cylinder block was not machined for three reasons:
1. I had noticed no leaks from the head gaskets previously.
2. It is difficult to machine the block without removing the studs, a task which I regard as a high risk operation, if at all possible.
3.If the the block was machined, the cylinder liners must of course be shortened accordingly, a critical operation.
I used new oversize pistons and the original liners have been bored out, and fitted to their original positions. Further, there were some corrosion at the water passages in the block mating surface, so I used Hermetite Yellow to help the head gasket keep water in place. This seems to have been successful.
So, if I take the engine apart agin, remove the heads and get new gaskets, what can I do to prevent the same problem from occurring again?
-Does anyone know of a better head gasket available anywhere? I used original ones which may be 30 years old.
- Anyone with experience of a better gasket dressing than Hermetite? Maybe RTV silicone ? All hints wellcome!
Oh yes, I will check the surfaces again for flatness!
Orso
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Tom
Hi Orso,
I ran your problem past Francois today, and here are his thoughts:
Machining the block is pretty involved where not only do you need to remove the studs, but also the cylinder liners. The other problem is when everything is returned, you have to make sure enough of the liner protrudes into the head gaskets for a certain amount of crush. He's seen people machine this protusion flat to the block, and have head gasket sealing problems.
He feels there are several areas to check. First is the pressure line between the block and the head. One pin on the block is a locating pin, and the second one on the other side is hollow, and supplies oil to the cams. RTV sparingly this fitting so no oil squeezes past. The return feeds also need to be checked.
Other possibilities are the two or three o-rings on the timing chain case, and the square gasket for the chain cover. All these leaks can drain down and look like they're coming from the head.
Hope this help, and let me know if I need to make it clearer.
Tom
Hi Orso,
I ran your problem past Francois today, and here are his thoughts:
Machining the block is pretty involved where not only do you need to remove the studs, but also the cylinder liners. The other problem is when everything is returned, you have to make sure enough of the liner protrudes into the head gaskets for a certain amount of crush. He's seen people machine this protusion flat to the block, and have head gasket sealing problems.
He feels there are several areas to check. First is the pressure line between the block and the head. One pin on the block is a locating pin, and the second one on the other side is hollow, and supplies oil to the cams. RTV sparingly this fitting so no oil squeezes past. The return feeds also need to be checked.
Other possibilities are the two or three o-rings on the timing chain case, and the square gasket for the chain cover. All these leaks can drain down and look like they're coming from the head.
Hope this help, and let me know if I need to make it clearer.
Tom
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Tom
Hi Orso,
I ran your problem past Francois today, and here are his thoughts:
Machining the block is pretty involved where not only do you need to remove the studs, but also the cylinder liners. The other problem is when everything is returned, you have to make sure enough of the liner protrudes into the head gaskets for a certain amount of crush. He's seen people machine this protusion flat to the block, and have head gasket sealing problems.
He feels there are several areas to check. First is the pressure line between the block and the head. One pin on the block is a locating pin, and the second one on the other side is hollow, and supplies oil to the cams. RTV sparingly this fitting so no oil squeezes past. The return feeds also need to be checked.
Other possibilities are the two or three o-rings on the timing chain case, and the square gasket for the chain cover. All these leaks can drain down and look like they're coming from the head.
Hope this help, and let me know if I need to make it clearer.
Tom
Hi Orso,
I ran your problem past Francois today, and here are his thoughts:
Machining the block is pretty involved where not only do you need to remove the studs, but also the cylinder liners. The other problem is when everything is returned, you have to make sure enough of the liner protrudes into the head gaskets for a certain amount of crush. He's seen people machine this protusion flat to the block, and have head gasket sealing problems.
He feels there are several areas to check. First is the pressure line between the block and the head. One pin on the block is a locating pin, and the second one on the other side is hollow, and supplies oil to the cams. RTV sparingly this fitting so no oil squeezes past. The return feeds also need to be checked.
Other possibilities are the two or three o-rings on the timing chain case, and the square gasket for the chain cover. All these leaks can drain down and look like they're coming from the head.
Hope this help, and let me know if I need to make it clearer.
Tom
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Tom
Hi Orso,
I ran your problem past Francois today, and here are his thoughts:
Machining the block is pretty involved where not only do you need to remove the studs, but also the cylinder liners. The other problem is when everything is returned, you have to make sure enough of the liner protrudes into the head gaskets for a certain amount of crush. He's seen people machine this protusion flat to the block, and have head gasket sealing problems.
He feels there are several areas to check. First is the pressure line between the block and the head. One pin on the block is a locating pin, and the second one on the other side is hollow, and supplies oil to the cams. RTV sparingly this fitting so no oil squeezes past. The return feeds also need to be checked.
Other possibilities are the two or three o-rings on the timing chain case, and the square gasket for the chain cover. All these leaks can drain down and look like they're coming from the head.
Hope this help, and let me know if I need to make it clearer.
Tom
Hi Orso,
I ran your problem past Francois today, and here are his thoughts:
Machining the block is pretty involved where not only do you need to remove the studs, but also the cylinder liners. The other problem is when everything is returned, you have to make sure enough of the liner protrudes into the head gaskets for a certain amount of crush. He's seen people machine this protusion flat to the block, and have head gasket sealing problems.
He feels there are several areas to check. First is the pressure line between the block and the head. One pin on the block is a locating pin, and the second one on the other side is hollow, and supplies oil to the cams. RTV sparingly this fitting so no oil squeezes past. The return feeds also need to be checked.
Other possibilities are the two or three o-rings on the timing chain case, and the square gasket for the chain cover. All these leaks can drain down and look like they're coming from the head.
Hope this help, and let me know if I need to make it clearer.
Tom
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Orso
Thanks Tom and Francois
You have made yourself quite clear. I have in fact considered all the points you mention.
There are no signs of any leakage at the rear end of the heads close to the pressure lines, so it seems the oil return lines are causing the leakage, even though it seems unlikely...
I am quite sure that oil seeped out of the head gaskets at both ends of the heads when I ran the engine last week, but most people I mention it to think I have had a nightmare. So, I am tempted to run it once again, just to make 150 % sure before I start tearing the engine apart again, a task that of course involves lots of work, much time and considerable expense.
I will inform you of any developments
Orso
Thanks Tom and Francois
You have made yourself quite clear. I have in fact considered all the points you mention.
There are no signs of any leakage at the rear end of the heads close to the pressure lines, so it seems the oil return lines are causing the leakage, even though it seems unlikely...
I am quite sure that oil seeped out of the head gaskets at both ends of the heads when I ran the engine last week, but most people I mention it to think I have had a nightmare. So, I am tempted to run it once again, just to make 150 % sure before I start tearing the engine apart again, a task that of course involves lots of work, much time and considerable expense.
I will inform you of any developments
Orso
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Orso
Thanks Tom and Francois
You have made yourself quite clear. I have in fact considered all the points you mention.
There are no signs of any leakage at the rear end of the heads close to the pressure lines, so it seems the oil return lines are causing the leakage, even though it seems unlikely...
I am quite sure that oil seeped out of the head gaskets at both ends of the heads when I ran the engine last week, but most people I mention it to think I have had a nightmare. So, I am tempted to run it once again, just to make 150 % sure before I start tearing the engine apart again, a task that of course involves lots of work, much time and considerable expense.
I will inform you of any developments
Orso
Thanks Tom and Francois
You have made yourself quite clear. I have in fact considered all the points you mention.
There are no signs of any leakage at the rear end of the heads close to the pressure lines, so it seems the oil return lines are causing the leakage, even though it seems unlikely...
I am quite sure that oil seeped out of the head gaskets at both ends of the heads when I ran the engine last week, but most people I mention it to think I have had a nightmare. So, I am tempted to run it once again, just to make 150 % sure before I start tearing the engine apart again, a task that of course involves lots of work, much time and considerable expense.
I will inform you of any developments
Orso
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Orso
Thanks Tom and Francois
You have made yourself quite clear. I have in fact considered all the points you mention.
There are no signs of any leakage at the rear end of the heads close to the pressure lines, so it seems the oil return lines are causing the leakage, even though it seems unlikely...
I am quite sure that oil seeped out of the head gaskets at both ends of the heads when I ran the engine last week, but most people I mention it to think I have had a nightmare. So, I am tempted to run it once again, just to make 150 % sure before I start tearing the engine apart again, a task that of course involves lots of work, much time and considerable expense.
I will inform you of any developments
Orso
Thanks Tom and Francois
You have made yourself quite clear. I have in fact considered all the points you mention.
There are no signs of any leakage at the rear end of the heads close to the pressure lines, so it seems the oil return lines are causing the leakage, even though it seems unlikely...
I am quite sure that oil seeped out of the head gaskets at both ends of the heads when I ran the engine last week, but most people I mention it to think I have had a nightmare. So, I am tempted to run it once again, just to make 150 % sure before I start tearing the engine apart again, a task that of course involves lots of work, much time and considerable expense.
I will inform you of any developments
Orso
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Mark
Just wondered how you are getting along with all the problems you were having ! it seems that all the advisers have gone quiet - are they all stuck for words or have I missed the follow-up replies ? I'd be interested to hear how you progressed with the head leaking problems:-
jacob.ltd@classicfm.net or... :-
katydavies@classicfm.net
Just wondered how you are getting along with all the problems you were having ! it seems that all the advisers have gone quiet - are they all stuck for words or have I missed the follow-up replies ? I'd be interested to hear how you progressed with the head leaking problems:-
jacob.ltd@classicfm.net or... :-
katydavies@classicfm.net
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Mark
Just wondered how you are getting along with all the problems you were having ! it seems that all the advisers have gone quiet - are they all stuck for words or have I missed the follow-up replies ? I'd be interested to hear how you progressed with the head leaking problems:-
jacob.ltd@classicfm.net or... :-
katydavies@classicfm.net
Just wondered how you are getting along with all the problems you were having ! it seems that all the advisers have gone quiet - are they all stuck for words or have I missed the follow-up replies ? I'd be interested to hear how you progressed with the head leaking problems:-
jacob.ltd@classicfm.net or... :-
katydavies@classicfm.net
Re: 365 2-cam rebuild
Posted by Mark
Just wondered how you are getting along with all the problems you were having ! it seems that all the advisers have gone quiet - are they all stuck for words or have I missed the follow-up replies ? I'd be interested to hear how you progressed with the head leaking problems:-
jacob.ltd@classicfm.net or... :-
katydavies@classicfm.net
Just wondered how you are getting along with all the problems you were having ! it seems that all the advisers have gone quiet - are they all stuck for words or have I missed the follow-up replies ? I'd be interested to hear how you progressed with the head leaking problems:-
jacob.ltd@classicfm.net or... :-
katydavies@classicfm.net