Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Ferrari Message Board Archive 10/00-8/02
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Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:38 pm

Posted by Jose M



Hi to all,

First let me say this is a great site. Congrats !

I have been ofered a '64 Ferrari 250 GT Lusso. It has 74.000 km and belonged to a collector. He is asking 200.000 EUR. He says it is in top condition.

I don't have any experience with Ferraris. However I have worked a lot on classic Bmws.  I know a Ferrari is a Ferrari...what a sound...unique cars. I would like to own one but as I said before I know veeery little about them. Would the dealer able to service the car ? How dificult is to get parts ? Is it a fair price ? What do you think ??

Thanks !

P.S: Here is a pic of the car. I still haven't seen it in person.

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Sun Jun 30, 2002 6:42 pm

Posted by Enrique Landa

Jose,

The Lusso is a fantastic car, a classic Ferrari V12 that can be driven regularly with classic sixties good looks. The car should not be overly difficult to service, the mechanics are simple and it is the last of the long line of 250 Ferraris so the parts are readily available. Maintence with dealers depends on where you are. Often the best course of action is to find a good mechanic that specializes in classic cars and go with them. Get recommendations though, I am sure that someone here can recommend one whereever you are.
The only thing I can tell you about this car is that the price seems a bit on the expensive side. Lussos according to the Ferrari Market Letter are listing between $130,000 and $140,000 on average. So this car you are looking at is substanially higher. To give you a further example a lusso sold at the RM LA auction, that was described as perfect with a full restoration mechanically and cosmetically, sold for $197,000. Unless this car is in perfect shape or has some particular history, you might want to look elsewhere. From the price quote in euro, I think you may be in Europe. If you are the difference in price may be a result of a European preference for Lussos that keeps their prices about 20% higher in the EU. Even so this example above seems a touch pricey. You may want to drop a phone call to Paul Baber in England, he seems to be an expert on Lussos in Europe. Either way considering bring over an American car, Mike Sheenan has a good driver in black for $125,00. If you have any further questions just let me know.

Happy motoring,

Enrique Landa

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Sun Jun 30, 2002 9:35 pm

Posted by Tom

Hi Jose,

Thanks, I'm glad you like the site!

I agree with Enrique, $200K Euros sounds like a lot of money. It'd better be perfect! The color however is beautiful! It's nice to see a Ferrari that isn't red! What color is the interior?

If you know nothing about Ferraris, LEARN! Especially if you're about to embark on the road to ownership. If you're not educated in the finer points, find someone you can trust to help or else it can become a very painful and costly proposition! There were 350 of these cars made, so choose wisely.

There is a book out there that is out of print purely about Lussos. Someone on this message board can tell you the name of it. It can guide you to understanding what makes a perfect car. Find a third party mechanic to to the mechanical inspection because a mistake, or mislead can cost over $25k for an engine rebuild.

Yes, they can be driven regularily. Yes they can be fixed by a regular mechanic. And, Yes you can also get screwed! BE CAREFUL!


Tom

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:38 pm

Posted by Jose M

Thanks for the coments Tom & Enrique.

Yes, I'm European. I live in Spain. Perhaps that explains the price diference between U.S and Europe as Enrique said. We have some Ferrari dealerships here ( in the big cityes ) but my feeling is that they are not interested in old cars. At least that is my experience with Bmw dealerships...they simply don't know about old cars. Perhaps it is diferent for Ferrari dealers ??

My humble opinion is that a Ferrari is a car every car "fanatic" should own at least once in his/her life :-). I want it to have some fun as those cars were made to be driven and enjoyed...

I will continue searching.

Thanks again for the help.

P.S: About the leather I would say it is Connolly leather ( like the one in the Bentley Continental T ) .

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:38 pm

Posted by Jose M

Thanks for the coments Tom & Enrique.

Yes, I'm European. I live in Spain. Perhaps that explains the price diference between U.S and Europe as Enrique said. We have some Ferrari dealerships here ( in the big cityes ) but my feeling is that they are not interested in old cars. At least that is my experience with Bmw dealerships...they simply don't know about old cars. Perhaps it is diferent for Ferrari dealers ??

My humble opinion is that a Ferrari is a car every car "fanatic" should own at least once in his/her life :-). I want it to have some fun as those cars were made to be driven and enjoyed...

I will continue searching.

Thanks again for the help.

P.S: About the leather I would say it is Connolly leather ( like the one in the Bentley Continental T ) .

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:37 pm

Posted by Tom

Hi Jose,

The dealers tend not to be a good choice for servicing an old Ferrari. Most of the mechanics have very little experience with the older cars, and don't have the patience to troubleshoot the problems. Many modern mechanics are "Parts Changers," and often their inability to solve a problem is at your expense.

I used to be heavily into Porsches, but once I got bitten by the Ferrari bug, there was almost no turning back!

ALL Ferraris have Connolly leather. That is a brand name. As the interior leather beige?

Tom

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:37 pm

Posted by Tom

Hi Jose,

The dealers tend not to be a good choice for servicing an old Ferrari. Most of the mechanics have very little experience with the older cars, and don't have the patience to troubleshoot the problems. Many modern mechanics are "Parts Changers," and often their inability to solve a problem is at your expense.

I used to be heavily into Porsches, but once I got bitten by the Ferrari bug, there was almost no turning back!

ALL Ferraris have Connolly leather. That is a brand name. As the interior leather beige?

Tom

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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Mon Jul 01, 2002 4:37 pm

Posted by Tom

Hi Jose,

The dealers tend not to be a good choice for servicing an old Ferrari. Most of the mechanics have very little experience with the older cars, and don't have the patience to troubleshoot the problems. Many modern mechanics are "Parts Changers," and often their inability to solve a problem is at your expense.

I used to be heavily into Porsches, but once I got bitten by the Ferrari bug, there was almost no turning back!

ALL Ferraris have Connolly leather. That is a brand name. As the interior leather beige?

Tom

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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:47 am

Posted by Enrique Landa

Jose,

If you are seriously interested in an old Ferrari you should have a word with the various Ferrari brokers in Europe. Paul Baber, you can find him at Paulbaber.com, has a lot of knowledge about the European market. Also a good place to get older cars is Italy, I will post a website from home later today that is good for searching. Aside from that, you may want to pick up the British classic car magazines, they are good for ads from ferrari sellers and brokers. I am Spanish myself, but now live in California, about the concern with dealers... don't go with them, let me know where you live and I can probably recommed a good old ferrari mechanic.

Best,

Enrique Landa

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:47 am

Posted by Enrique Landa

Jose,

If you are seriously interested in an old Ferrari you should have a word with the various Ferrari brokers in Europe. Paul Baber, you can find him at Paulbaber.com, has a lot of knowledge about the European market. Also a good place to get older cars is Italy, I will post a website from home later today that is good for searching. Aside from that, you may want to pick up the British classic car magazines, they are good for ads from ferrari sellers and brokers. I am Spanish myself, but now live in California, about the concern with dealers... don't go with them, let me know where you live and I can probably recommed a good old ferrari mechanic.

Best,

Enrique Landa

wwwboard
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:47 am

Posted by Enrique Landa

Jose,

If you are seriously interested in an old Ferrari you should have a word with the various Ferrari brokers in Europe. Paul Baber, you can find him at Paulbaber.com, has a lot of knowledge about the European market. Also a good place to get older cars is Italy, I will post a website from home later today that is good for searching. Aside from that, you may want to pick up the British classic car magazines, they are good for ads from ferrari sellers and brokers. I am Spanish myself, but now live in California, about the concern with dealers... don't go with them, let me know where you live and I can probably recommed a good old ferrari mechanic.

Best,

Enrique Landa

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:11 pm

Posted by Ricky Hills

Who ever mentioned the RM LA Auction was right about the Luso that sold, it was in good condition but not driveable, it seems the motor as some major mechanical probelms. The restoration was done by some guy in Orange County and altough it was good the car was/is
tomato red, not Ferrari red. For that price, the wrong color and major mechanical problems, someone got screwed heavily. I know this because the car is sitting at Blackhorse Motors in Los Angeles since it was bought, and from what I understand will be sitting there for some time.  So to Enrique, 200K euros should be for a perfect perfect perfect car, from top to bottom.  Good Luck!.

Ricky Hills.  &nbsp

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:11 pm

Posted by Ricky Hills

Who ever mentioned the RM LA Auction was right about the Luso that sold, it was in good condition but not driveable, it seems the motor as some major mechanical probelms. The restoration was done by some guy in Orange County and altough it was good the car was/is
tomato red, not Ferrari red. For that price, the wrong color and major mechanical problems, someone got screwed heavily. I know this because the car is sitting at Blackhorse Motors in Los Angeles since it was bought, and from what I understand will be sitting there for some time.  So to Enrique, 200K euros should be for a perfect perfect perfect car, from top to bottom.  Good Luck!.

Ricky Hills.  &nbsp

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:01 pm

Posted by Enrique Landa

To Ricky,

I was wrong about the Lusso at RM Auctions, it was actually a Lusso that sold at Barrett Jackson LA that I was referring to, sorry about any confusion caused to anyone as a result.
Here is what the market letter said about the Lusso at Barrett Jackson.



250 GT Lusso Berlinetta, S/N 5875. Red with tan interior. Recent restoration, 2+ condition. Hammered sold at $194,000 plus commission of 8.00% = final price $209,520. Chrome spoke Borranis, no radio. Beautifully restored by Classic European Restorations in San Diego to just enough better than new condition to win a platinum at Concorso Italiano. The way Ferrari would have built Lussos if money and time were no object. Great bodywork, even gaps, flush panels, lush interior. To some this Lusso will be "over-restored". OK, but it’s still the nicest Lusso that’s come along in a long time and brought expressions of awe and appreciation from even the most jaded onlookers. The price is huge but there is something like $150K in the restoration which makes the Lusso itself darn near free. The audience cheered when it sold for this price and all other Lusso owners can be heard endorsing their sentiment.

Here are the ads from the Market Letter reflecting the differnce from EU to US prices.

250 GT/L, S/N 4411 (1963). LHD. Rosso rubino with beige hide. One owner until 1996 when we sold it to second owner. Sadly he didn't have time to use the car & it has been dry-stored since. Totally untouched & free from any rust or rot. Paint is a little tired but car has the most wonderful patina of age. Needs a new owner to give it regular exercise. UK£125,000.   8/01

   Paul Baber, Ferrari Specialist, 250 SWB Ltd., +44-1732-864340, fax +44-1732-864250, 250swb@dialin.net, www.paulbaber.com (England)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

250 GT/L, S/N 5533 (1964). Blue metallic with black interior. Part of a collection for 18 years. 95,200 km. $125,000.   6/02

   407-645-5244 (FL)


I looked over the RM Auction results from the LA auction on May 25th and their is no record of a Lusso being sold, is this the same auction that your are referring to Ricky?  The link of the results is below.

Hope this helps,

Enrique Landa


RM Auctoins Results

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Re: Ferrari 250 GT Lusso

Post by wwwboard » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:01 pm

Posted by Enrique Landa

To Ricky,

I was wrong about the Lusso at RM Auctions, it was actually a Lusso that sold at Barrett Jackson LA that I was referring to, sorry about any confusion caused to anyone as a result.
Here is what the market letter said about the Lusso at Barrett Jackson.



250 GT Lusso Berlinetta, S/N 5875. Red with tan interior. Recent restoration, 2+ condition. Hammered sold at $194,000 plus commission of 8.00% = final price $209,520. Chrome spoke Borranis, no radio. Beautifully restored by Classic European Restorations in San Diego to just enough better than new condition to win a platinum at Concorso Italiano. The way Ferrari would have built Lussos if money and time were no object. Great bodywork, even gaps, flush panels, lush interior. To some this Lusso will be "over-restored". OK, but it’s still the nicest Lusso that’s come along in a long time and brought expressions of awe and appreciation from even the most jaded onlookers. The price is huge but there is something like $150K in the restoration which makes the Lusso itself darn near free. The audience cheered when it sold for this price and all other Lusso owners can be heard endorsing their sentiment.

Here are the ads from the Market Letter reflecting the differnce from EU to US prices.

250 GT/L, S/N 4411 (1963). LHD. Rosso rubino with beige hide. One owner until 1996 when we sold it to second owner. Sadly he didn't have time to use the car & it has been dry-stored since. Totally untouched & free from any rust or rot. Paint is a little tired but car has the most wonderful patina of age. Needs a new owner to give it regular exercise. UK£125,000.   8/01

   Paul Baber, Ferrari Specialist, 250 SWB Ltd., +44-1732-864340, fax +44-1732-864250, 250swb@dialin.net, www.paulbaber.com (England)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

250 GT/L, S/N 5533 (1964). Blue metallic with black interior. Part of a collection for 18 years. 95,200 km. $125,000.   6/02

   407-645-5244 (FL)


I looked over the RM Auction results from the LA auction on May 25th and their is no record of a Lusso being sold, is this the same auction that your are referring to Ricky?  The link of the results is below.

Hope this helps,

Enrique Landa


RM Auctoins Results

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