250 GTE Brake Lines

Ferrari Message Board Archive 10/00-8/02
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250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Mike Theo

Gentlemen,

I have a '63 250 GTE (#4573) that I bought six months ago and I am currently putting it back together.  Most all major componants (engine, trans, OD, etc.) were re-built.

Here is my current dilemma (one of many to come, I'm sure):  The brake booster has been rebuilt, and all four brake calipers have been rebuilt, resleeved and cad-plated.  All brake lines have been open from engine compartment to wheelwells for the past 20 years.  I know that the "safe" thing to would be to replace all of the lines because of the corrosive nature of brake fluid with moisture in it, but is there ANY way to save and reuse these lines?  Also, what should I do with the front proportioning valve?  As a side question, my brake booster is in grey primer, what color and texture should I paint it?  Thanks in advance for the help!
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Tom

Hi Mike,

I can't stress this enough. CHANGE THE BRAKE LINES!! It's not worth having a piece of trash in the lines ruin any of the rebuilt components. Unseen rust will also weaken the lines, and ruptures can occur. Since the brake lines are the thinnest piece that runs through the chassis, it shouldn't be too hard to fish the lines through. I know it's not the answer you want to hear, but if anything messes up the calipers, you'll regret not changing the lines.

I left the proportioning valve alone. Hopefully everything will work O.K.!

The Booster should be nickel plated (silver cad?), so if you want to paint it, look for a flat silver paint to mimick that sort of finish.

Tom Yang
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Pete

If it was my car, and you were not in control of the major component rebuilds, I would open them up and have a quick check.

Thus engine wise I would check:
1. valve clearances and thus condition of cams, etc.
2. crankshaft bearings.
3. condition of oil pump.

This would give you an idea of how well the engine rebuild was done (and hopefully the gearbox, also) ...

Hate to try and start it and cause expensive damage.

I also heard a story about a prestige garage starting a Daytona that had been sitting for a while and it ran a main bearing ... apparently you should remove plugs and spin on the starter to get oil circulating first. This would be the normal thing to do for any engine that had been sitting for a long time.

Just my 2 pennies worth :)

Pete
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Tom

Hi Pete,

Your suggestion reminds me what happend to my engine.
http://www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari60.htm
Unless you know the person who rebuilt the engine and they'll stand behind their work, trust no one! Click on the "next restoration day" at the bottom of the page, and you'll see what other mistakes were found!

Tom &nbsp
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Tom

Hi Pete,

Your suggestion reminds me what happend to my engine.
http://www.tomyang.com/cars/ferrari60.htm
Unless you know the person who rebuilt the engine and they'll stand behind their work, trust no one! Click on the "next restoration day" at the bottom of the page, and you'll see what other mistakes were found!

Tom &nbsp
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Dr. Ian Levy

Hello Mike
I agree with these guys. Trust no one unless you are very sure because the standard of work varies so much. I have just rebuilt/reconditioned all the braking system with some pretty shoddy work coming to light. CHANGE  all the brake pipes. I did & it is not that difficult. Tie  a  long piece of wire to one end of the pipes that go through the chassis  & this will give you a great "pull-through for the new lines.
Tape  up the end of the new lines before you pull them through & prepare yourself for a  very long  brake bleeding session
Good luck
Ian levy
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Standing engines

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Posted by peter gabriel

If a car has been standing for a long while:

1 Pull the plugs, squirt some light oil < could use Marvel Mystery oil> into the chambers. Let the car stand over night. Give it a few cranks. Put the plugs in, start it up, and watch the smoke.

2 You can also pour a couple of tablespoons of MM oil into the carbs, but I think the other way is more reliable
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Standing engines

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Posted by peter gabriel

If a car has been standing for a long while:

1 Pull the plugs, squirt some light oil < could use Marvel Mystery oil> into the chambers. Let the car stand over night. Give it a few cranks. Put the plugs in, start it up, and watch the smoke.

2 You can also pour a couple of tablespoons of MM oil into the carbs, but I think the other way is more reliable
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Mike Theo

Okay, sounds unanimous as far as replacing the brake lines, which is fine.  The next round of questions is: Where do you guys recommend that I buy the replacement lines?  What size are they? Is it worth trying to find pre-fab lines for the GTE or should I just get the right size tubing and nuts and then just flare the ends and assemble the lines myself (which would be fine, since I've done it before for other cars)?  SInce you brought it up, as far as bleeding, is it farthest wheel first, or closest wheel first?  Thanks again guys.  Hate to sound ignorant, but I really don't want to mess this up.
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Mike Theo

That certainly is good counsel.  

From my information, my motor was rebuilt by Joe Batchelor & Mike Gorley at FAF Motorcars/Ferrari of Atlanta back in 1981, so it has certainly been sitting for quite a while.  The motor cranks freely by hand and has oil in it.

This car was owned by Jim Campbell back when he was a part owner in FAF.  The real chore with this car is going to be putting it all back together and sorting it all out.

I'm almost tempted to think that this car has a "curse" on it, since the previous four owners have each put $$$ into it, needed cash, and then sold it for what they paid for it!  As a result, I have a brand new Connally leather interior, new Wilton wool carpeting, restored Borranis, completely rebuilt brake componants, complete bodywork done with lead where needed,  a rebuilt engine/trans/OD, a new clutch, rebuilt carbs, etc, etc, etc.

Oh well, I'm not kidding myself, and I know that there will still be major challenges, but at least it seems like a decent place to start.

Thanks again guys.
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Mike Theo

That certainly is good counsel.  

From my information, my motor was rebuilt by Joe Batchelor & Mike Gorley at FAF Motorcars/Ferrari of Atlanta back in 1981, so it has certainly been sitting for quite a while.  The motor cranks freely by hand and has oil in it.

This car was owned by Jim Campbell back when he was a part owner in FAF.  The real chore with this car is going to be putting it all back together and sorting it all out.

I'm almost tempted to think that this car has a "curse" on it, since the previous four owners have each put $$$ into it, needed cash, and then sold it for what they paid for it!  As a result, I have a brand new Connally leather interior, new Wilton wool carpeting, restored Borranis, completely rebuilt brake componants, complete bodywork done with lead where needed,  a rebuilt engine/trans/OD, a new clutch, rebuilt carbs, etc, etc, etc.

Oh well, I'm not kidding myself, and I know that there will still be major challenges, but at least it seems like a decent place to start.

Thanks again guys.
wwwboard
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Mike Theo

That certainly is good counsel.  

From my information, my motor was rebuilt by Joe Batchelor & Mike Gorley at FAF Motorcars/Ferrari of Atlanta back in 1981, so it has certainly been sitting for quite a while.  The motor cranks freely by hand and has oil in it.

This car was owned by Jim Campbell back when he was a part owner in FAF.  The real chore with this car is going to be putting it all back together and sorting it all out.

I'm almost tempted to think that this car has a "curse" on it, since the previous four owners have each put $$$ into it, needed cash, and then sold it for what they paid for it!  As a result, I have a brand new Connally leather interior, new Wilton wool carpeting, restored Borranis, completely rebuilt brake componants, complete bodywork done with lead where needed,  a rebuilt engine/trans/OD, a new clutch, rebuilt carbs, etc, etc, etc.

Oh well, I'm not kidding myself, and I know that there will still be major challenges, but at least it seems like a decent place to start.

Thanks again guys.
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Tom

Hi Mike,

I would suggest buying raw brake line, bend and flare them yourself. Just make sure you have the right flaring tool. The thin lines are 3/16th inch, and the thick lines to the proportioning valve, and M/C are 1/4 inch. See if you can re-use the fittings because they're hard to find. Shops and suppliers that deal with Jag brakes can help you with your tools and fittings since many of the parts are the same.

If your engine is out, this is the best time to do the brake lines. Be aware of the clearance between the proportioning valve and the moving engine parts in the front. It may have been specific to my 330 engine, but keep this in mind when doing yours.

Bleeding is done as normal, furthest from M/C first, but as mentioned earlier, pressure bleeding is probably the fastest, and most reliable. I gravity bled my brakes, and it seemed to work, although it took a long time.

Do a search on this site (in the lower left frame) for brakes, and you can read about what I did when I rebuilt my brakes.

Tom

P.S. Ignorance only comes from not asking questions and learning!
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Tom

Hi Mike,

I would suggest buying raw brake line, bend and flare them yourself. Just make sure you have the right flaring tool. The thin lines are 3/16th inch, and the thick lines to the proportioning valve, and M/C are 1/4 inch. See if you can re-use the fittings because they're hard to find. Shops and suppliers that deal with Jag brakes can help you with your tools and fittings since many of the parts are the same.

If your engine is out, this is the best time to do the brake lines. Be aware of the clearance between the proportioning valve and the moving engine parts in the front. It may have been specific to my 330 engine, but keep this in mind when doing yours.

Bleeding is done as normal, furthest from M/C first, but as mentioned earlier, pressure bleeding is probably the fastest, and most reliable. I gravity bled my brakes, and it seemed to work, although it took a long time.

Do a search on this site (in the lower left frame) for brakes, and you can read about what I did when I rebuilt my brakes.

Tom

P.S. Ignorance only comes from not asking questions and learning!
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Re: 250 GTE Brake Lines

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Posted by Luke Kowalski

Brake lines were not that expensive. I got mine from Brian, via the Ferrari Digest (he happens to work at Lyle Tanner/FPE and I think they sponsor that list).
I would definitely redo the proportioning valve (check it if it was redone 30 years ago). Rebuilding it requires 3 rubber pieces in some model years, 2 in other years. Only one diaphram is hard to source. I had my brake system rebuilt (#4823), but all is not well yet. Redid every single component, including a new master, but still get a mushy pedal. Probably need to bleed it some more, or one of teh rebuilt pieces is crap (had that happen with calipers plenty of times).
If you are putting a car together, Tom' site will be very valuable, indeed. But nothing beats a local car you can poke at. Where are you located?

luke, SF, CA

63 250 GTE
90 911 C4 (probably for sale/trade)
74 Alfa Spider
98 Audi A6Q
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