365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Ferrari Message Board Archive 10/00-8/02
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365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Erik Nagel

I have to get new middle mufflers for my otherwise completely original and 1st hand 365 GT 2+2. It still has the first exhaust system on, and the mufflers get noisy (probably burnt out).

I have looked all over the internet, and there seem to be a couple of manufacturers who do them:

- Ansa, the "ORIGINAL" - in normal steel (not stainless)
- Tubi Style, who today equip all new Ferraris and produce stainless steel exhausts,
- TimeValve in the US
- Quicksilver in the UK
- and some others.

My question to the wisdom of this forum is...
- which should I take - the stainless (not 'original' but probably lasting longer...), or the original normal steel systems produced by ANSA ?
- is there any difference in the sound ?
- who delivers the best fitting parts (don't want to spend ages to fit them) ?
- isn't it better - in an otherwise COMPLETELY ORIGINAL CAR (it still has the voxson radio, the 1st paint, the first you-name-it) - to fit the original non-stainless exhausts ? I mean, stainless steel was not delivered back in 69, so I really don't know ?

I live in Europe, but help is appreciated from all the world !!

Thanks a lot,
Erik
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Luke Kowalski

I have heard so many horror stories about people buying exhaust systems for exotic cars and then having them not fit. This is not always the aftermarket vendor's fault. These cars were hand built, so the clearance and fit tolerances were all over the place. I got a quote from a local pipe bending/muffler installing magician to replace the entire exhaust system in my car. And since no exhaust system will be "original" (unless your car came with ansa from the factory and the same set up is available now), I am not concerned. Now I have to decide whether I need the rear silencers (my car does not have them and sounds terrific), and I have to, errr..., find the funds...
In my case, custom fabrication was less money than the stebro or the timevalve. One more thing to try, right?

thx, luke

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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Aaron

Luke,

Thought I would throw my 2 bits/experience in the mix.

I have a C4 – Original muffler system rusted out – did the same search you are now engaged in.  I bought a system from London Stainless (Quick Silver) figuring that stainless was better for all the obvious reasons.  (It should be noted that if the car is driven regularly, the mild steel systems will last a long time.)  

The workmanship was very good, welds were clean, and the system was basically pretty close to original.  The internals of the London Stainless system are a little different and actually provide more muffling than the original.  I had listened to a Daytona with the London Stainless system on it, and it was defiantly quieter than that of a “concourse winning Dayton’s rebuilt system”   

Because I have damaged my hearing in past years (loud noises  …) and money – I had invested in tech stocks - I chose the London Stainless system.  

As for fit – here is where the rubber hits the road.  I had been warned that nothing would fit!  - (Time Valve guarantees fit – if it is true – the extra money is well worth it)
This is especially true routing the pipes between the rear half shafts and the lower “A” arms, and having them come out of the back – parallel, straight … such that they look right.  So – before you buy stainless, you NEED to secure a tubing bender/welder/ and supply of tubing, such that when it doesn’t fit, you have the “where with all” to fix it.  Many shops in my area not equipped to handle stainless, but excellent custom work is available in standard steel.  

I will paint my system now that it has been adjusted for – Bends, Lengths, brackets, - I still need to weld the flanges in place -.  It has also occurred to me that if you need to adjust a painted system, it will need to be repainted.  You might want to call Time Valve and ask them what happens if you buy their product and need to “adjust it”.

I have one remaining issues with the London Stainless system that I need to look into – One side has a “buzz/resonance” at 4000 RPM in the center section muffler – any one have any clues on this?

Best of luck,

Aaron




   

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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Aaron

Luke,

Thought I would throw my 2 bits/experience in the mix.

I have a C4 – Original muffler system rusted out – did the same search you are now engaged in.  I bought a system from London Stainless (Quick Silver) figuring that stainless was better for all the obvious reasons.  (It should be noted that if the car is driven regularly, the mild steel systems will last a long time.)  

The workmanship was very good, welds were clean, and the system was basically pretty close to original.  The internals of the London Stainless system are a little different and actually provide more muffling than the original.  I had listened to a Daytona with the London Stainless system on it, and it was defiantly quieter than that of a “concourse winning Dayton’s rebuilt system”   

Because I have damaged my hearing in past years (loud noises  …) and money – I had invested in tech stocks - I chose the London Stainless system.  

As for fit – here is where the rubber hits the road.  I had been warned that nothing would fit!  - (Time Valve guarantees fit – if it is true – the extra money is well worth it)
This is especially true routing the pipes between the rear half shafts and the lower “A” arms, and having them come out of the back – parallel, straight … such that they look right.  So – before you buy stainless, you NEED to secure a tubing bender/welder/ and supply of tubing, such that when it doesn’t fit, you have the “where with all” to fix it.  Many shops in my area not equipped to handle stainless, but excellent custom work is available in standard steel.  

I will paint my system now that it has been adjusted for – Bends, Lengths, brackets, - I still need to weld the flanges in place -.  It has also occurred to me that if you need to adjust a painted system, it will need to be repainted.  You might want to call Time Valve and ask them what happens if you buy their product and need to “adjust it”.

I have one remaining issues with the London Stainless system that I need to look into – One side has a “buzz/resonance” at 4000 RPM in the center section muffler – any one have any clues on this?

Best of luck,

Aaron




   

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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Erik Nagel

Thx Luke. Well, in fact my system is an original ANSA system, and after hearing that ANSA was gone I wondered and searched the net, and voilà, ANSA still exists. And they produce the original system,  BUT NOT stainless. Really original, so to say.
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Erik Nagel

Thx Luke. Well, in fact my system is an original ANSA system, and after hearing that ANSA was gone I wondered and searched the net, and voilà, ANSA still exists. And they produce the original system,  BUT NOT stainless. Really original, so to say.
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Erik Nagel

Aaron, thanks a lot for that reply. Actually, I have talked to the guy from quicksilver, and he sounded very convincing, especially with the sound. The GT is not a race car, and I am not into show off, so a quieter system would actually would suit me fine.

On the other hand, I am reluctant to put a non-original system on.

Prices are about the same - both come without VAT, and are approximately the same price, ANSA coming at 830 Euro each (which is currently approx. the same amount in Dollar), and the Quicksilver at ~1450 Euro for both.

The next issue is, if I choose the stainless mufflers, I then have a mixed system - the tailpipes, and the manifolds are perfectly fine - and I do not know how these two types of steel go together. Does anyone know more about that question ?

My principal position is, if there is the original manufacturer out there, producing the original exhaust system with the original tools, jigs and masters, why should I purchase a non-original system from someone else, even if it maybe better ? Doesn't a non-original piece have a negative impact on the value of the car ?

My car is an exceptional firsthander, it has been with the family since it was delivered from Ferrari, and all parts are still original including the radio (an endless tape radio - cassette player from Voxson, I even have the original Dean Martin tapes...).

Hell, I don't know. HELP ME !!!


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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Erik Nagel

Aaron, thanks a lot for that reply. Actually, I have talked to the guy from quicksilver, and he sounded very convincing, especially with the sound. The GT is not a race car, and I am not into show off, so a quieter system would actually would suit me fine.

On the other hand, I am reluctant to put a non-original system on.

Prices are about the same - both come without VAT, and are approximately the same price, ANSA coming at 830 Euro each (which is currently approx. the same amount in Dollar), and the Quicksilver at ~1450 Euro for both.

The next issue is, if I choose the stainless mufflers, I then have a mixed system - the tailpipes, and the manifolds are perfectly fine - and I do not know how these two types of steel go together. Does anyone know more about that question ?

My principal position is, if there is the original manufacturer out there, producing the original exhaust system with the original tools, jigs and masters, why should I purchase a non-original system from someone else, even if it maybe better ? Doesn't a non-original piece have a negative impact on the value of the car ?

My car is an exceptional firsthander, it has been with the family since it was delivered from Ferrari, and all parts are still original including the radio (an endless tape radio - cassette player from Voxson, I even have the original Dean Martin tapes...).

Hell, I don't know. HELP ME !!!


wwwboard
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 pm

Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Erik Nagel

Aaron, thanks a lot for that reply. Actually, I have talked to the guy from quicksilver, and he sounded very convincing, especially with the sound. The GT is not a race car, and I am not into show off, so a quieter system would actually would suit me fine.

On the other hand, I am reluctant to put a non-original system on.

Prices are about the same - both come without VAT, and are approximately the same price, ANSA coming at 830 Euro each (which is currently approx. the same amount in Dollar), and the Quicksilver at ~1450 Euro for both.

The next issue is, if I choose the stainless mufflers, I then have a mixed system - the tailpipes, and the manifolds are perfectly fine - and I do not know how these two types of steel go together. Does anyone know more about that question ?

My principal position is, if there is the original manufacturer out there, producing the original exhaust system with the original tools, jigs and masters, why should I purchase a non-original system from someone else, even if it maybe better ? Doesn't a non-original piece have a negative impact on the value of the car ?

My car is an exceptional firsthander, it has been with the family since it was delivered from Ferrari, and all parts are still original including the radio (an endless tape radio - cassette player from Voxson, I even have the original Dean Martin tapes...).

Hell, I don't know. HELP ME !!!


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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

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Posted by Steve

Let's see now, the original is available, is less expensive, should be a better fit , sounded fine the first time around, and has lasted how long before it needed to be replaced? Sounds like a no-brainer to me. &nbsp
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Steve

Let's see now, the original is available, is less expensive, should be a better fit , sounded fine the first time around, and has lasted how long before it needed to be replaced? Sounds like a no-brainer to me. &nbsp
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Steve

Let's see now, the original is available, is less expensive, should be a better fit , sounded fine the first time around, and has lasted how long before it needed to be replaced? Sounds like a no-brainer to me. &nbsp
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Steve

Let's see now, the original is available, is less expensive, should be a better fit , sounded fine the first time around, and has lasted how long before it needed to be replaced? Sounds like a no-brainer to me. &nbsp
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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Deane

I replaced the original Abarth exhaust on my 330GTS with an "original" ANSA setup. It took a local muffler shop a day or so to fit it to the car.

Whatever you buy, plan to have someone who is handy with a saw and welder spend some time fitting it to your car.

Now if I could just get an exhaust that would make my 330 sound like a Daytona....

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Re: 365 GT 2+2: Exhaust / Middle Silencers

Post by wwwboard »

Posted by Deane

I replaced the original Abarth exhaust on my 330GTS with an "original" ANSA setup. It took a local muffler shop a day or so to fit it to the car.

Whatever you buy, plan to have someone who is handy with a saw and welder spend some time fitting it to your car.

Now if I could just get an exhaust that would make my 330 sound like a Daytona....

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