365 GTC/4 Opinions

[330 America]

I was wondering if Michael or other GTC/4 owners might weigh in with their opinions as it relates to:

* Reliability (maintenance costs, oil burn, rate of breakdown, guage/switch issues, etc.)
* Driveability (seating position, turning radius, acceleration/braking, handling, etc.)
* Driving impressions
* Interior quality/fitment (dash, switches, seats, etc.)
* Desirability and comparison to other models

This model (being somewhat of a "sleeper") has always intrigued me as a possible acquisition, but several Ferrari mechanics have advised that the way the engine is wedged in the car means substantially more labor costs for routine maintenance and unscheduled repairs. Thoughts?

[afwrench]

Hi Steve, I hope others chime in but I'll give you my 2cents. My car has been a very positive experience to date. I'm a big guy and the driving position is OK for me.I do all my own work so labor cost dont count for me but the real issue with the C4 is that at major service time the valve adjustment procedure requires more time than most. You also have 6 carbs to deal with.The interior pieces are not as elegant as earlier cars but it still gives a very nice appearence. Forget the back seats except for bags but with the trunk ,lots of room. A very comfortable ride and they sound just great.No major problem with parts. Look at the Forza issue[sorry dont know the #] that compares the c4 with a Daytona. The C4 is M. Bayer's car. Hope this helps. Mike

[Michael Bayer]

The GTC/4 is a very different car from even the last variant of the 330. There are likely extant about 400 of the 500 made, so you have few to choose from. There are significant differences between the US and Euro versions, and as was the factory practice, there were improvement to the cars during the production run. The best source of that info is the Blummel's V12 Survivors book which lists the adds by serial number and is also a good source to see if the car has been modified.

The Euro version is significantly more powerful then the US, all of which can be made up by pulling the pollution gear off the car (its all stock GM junk including the non metric threads) thereby restoring good intake and exhaust flow (Bill Badursky has the necessary plugs). There is an urban legend that the water pumps are impossible to fix on the car (not true) and that they are very fragile (way less temperamental than a 330 mechanical fuel pump). As to speed, 0-60 a Euro C/4 is 1/10 of a second slower than a Daytona and the C/4s brakes will stop that heaver car FASTER than the Daytona. The carbs are a pain IF you must meet pollution standards, if not, like any other 3 or 6 Weber cars, once set up, they never need touching (did you ever hear a Daytona owner complain about his carbs, or for that matter an honest to heaven C4 owner?). There is more time in pulling the carbs and cam covers to adjust the valves (most of which is getting those &@$ $@%$ air cleaners off, then its just a Daytona job, and if you really want a sight, leave the air cleaners off and the 12 velocity stacks otherwise covered by the air cleaners, exposed for all to see. The Euro cars have a 12 cylinder dissy, Mike Meehan can comment. The US has two that, like a 330, once you fix the weights and advance curves and add the MSDs they are bomb proof, and they are not all that hard to get in and out, however they are very difficult to work on while they are in the engine.

Oil burn rate is like all the others, simply a function of engine wear and the use of the correct oil, they like their Series II 330 brothers, have good valve seals. I bought my car with about 13,000 miles (it now has about 19,000) and I have never added oil between changes (though the engine seeps oil because I insist on using synthetics), the gauges and switches are as bomb proof as any other Ferrari of that era, and the transmission is properly bolted to the bell housing and easily accessible, but has those stupid Porsche synchros that are in your America, but seem some how slightly improved. Shifting is WAY better and more reliable than with the Daytonas loosy goosy linkage, and the independent rear suspension is the 365GTs and bombproof. The two rear air leveler shocks either work or don't and can be replaced with a Koni spring over conversion for about 1,300.00 or you can great a set of Monroe air shocks and paint them Koni orange (see Tom's notes for the proper paint) all for about 60.00 (and those that have done it say the ride and handling is identical) but count on a point off on the Pebble Beach Lawn.

Maintenance costs are impossible to describe. Tom Welch and I have cars that are essentially at zero deferred maintenance, and we would both assert these cars IF DRIVEN are very very reliable and like my 330 darn cheep to own. The challenge is finding a car that you can get to that stage (ask Yale). It turns like a GT car, (but way tighter than a 330), and it is WAY faster than the road tests describe. The sound is amazing. As to looks, it draws far larger crowds at the grocery store that my 330. Interior fitment is much better than the 330. This was the last of the hand built pre Fiat era cars, and PF was doing a much better job on the details than in the mid 60s. As to desirability, there many cars of that or later era I don't like to drive, the Daytona to me is like driving a loud, poorly built, Italian truck, the C4 is a joy to drive, modern, tight, won't beat you up on a long drive, yet will turn and keep up with the best of the modern cars and, it always makes me smile. So my advice is ignore all the hype as each car has its throng of admirers, and drive the cars, if it makes you smile when you are on a twisty road on a bright morning all alone, buy the best of one of those you can afford and like our esteemed hero, Admiral Phillips commit your self to wearing out the motor on drive after drive. Then someday, years and years from now, make her all new and take her to Pebble and tell them all your story.

[tyang]

One of the biggest differences from the C4 to her peers like the Daytona and earlier 2+2s? POWER STEERING! Good or bad in changing the character of a car, it is certainly a joy in maneuvering a 3000+ lbs car around in a parking lot. Having just gotten back from a drive in a Queen with P/S, there is something very appealing to being able to move through heavy traffic and urban streets while palming the wheel!

Tom

[330 America]

Michael - a superb write up. Sounds like finding a nicely sorted/maintained car and then removing the smog gear (perhaps not needed under EPA/DOT 25 year exemption rule) and exposing the velocity stacks produces a nice performer that looks great and is fun to drive.

If I decided to part with the 330 America (a big "IF") and decided I wanted a less-expensive/restored Ferrari in the garage -- the 365 GTC/4's are really attractively priced and have nice curb appeal.

[Michael Bayer]

330 America: Where do you live? There may be a C4 owner near that could show you more, M

[330 America]

Near San Antonio

[365gtc/4]

Steve
I love C4s. If you can get into a Euro C4, hit 100 in third gear and then select forth and hit the gas hard. If that doesn't put a smile on your face you are not a car guy. My Euro C4 is bullet proof but you should do your own maintenance as the valve adjust is a pain and will cost $5k otherwise. It takes maybe 40 hours to do it !!! They are a great GT car but can still mix it with sports cars if well driven.
John