Power Windows in my 330 GTC

[Steve Meltzer]

Tom, thanx so much for your interest and help. A 12V test light only lights the wires going through the door to the motor when the switch is operated. I'm thinkin' this has to do with that #^%%$%^$ three terminal block. Guess I could always take off the other door panel and replicate that (seemingly) successful wiring. My initial notes, when I took this apart, aren't very good, but I do know that initially, before the Ducellier motor went out, at least one of the motor wires was connected to that block. thanx again. s

[Steve Meltzer]

Was wondering if XS current might be flowing because of a fault in the switch? It did feel "sticky" as I said. Thinking of running some jumpers to the battery and seeing if the motor gets hot when the switch is bypassed and the motor runs directly from 12V. My friend and I put PW in my '66 'Vette coupe and they're the most awesome, blindlingly fast things I've ever seen. Man I wish I had them in this car. I appreciate any and all help. thanx again. s

[TOMKIZER]

Brilliant, Steve,

Bypass the switch and test the motor, then eliminate the motor and test the switch.

Sounds logical to a mechanical engineer - but then what would I know about electricity, except that, "Juice Bites!", and "Don't pee on an electric fence."

Tom Kizer

[xs10shl]

This might not be applicable, but these old Ducellier motors are identical to ones used on the headlights of a Lamborghini Miura. They can be replaced with a modern Alfa window motor for $170. I'm also in the process of cleaning mine up, and putting them in a box for another time. I'll be replacing them with new ones for road use.

[xs10shl]

Actually, come to think of it, I think someone may have already mentioned that a while back on another thread.

[Steve Meltzer]

Do you happen to have the Alfa part number or a source? thanx s

[xs10shl]

Bought mine from Bobileff, will get you p/n when it arrives. I've seen them for about the same money at Centerline Alfa and other Alfa shops online. These are 2-wire motors.

http://bobileff.com/cpg/displayimage.php?pos=-129

I have not confirmed that this next one will also work, but I'll bet it does:

http://www.centerlinealfa.com/cgi-local ... 1249782627

[Steve Meltzer]

thanx so much. wonder how you'd wire in a 2 wire motor here. thanx s

[xs10shl]

$15 relay, most likely.

[Steve Meltzer]

I'm lost here. What about a relay? I don't see one on the schematic and am wondering if you're just using the relay with a 2 wire set up? thanx s

[330GT]

thanx so much. wonder how you'd wire in a 2 wire motor here. thanx s

A 2 wire motor is what is in the 308. Here is the schematic:

Picture2.jpg (40.82 KiB) Viewed 10948 times

#93 is the driver's side window switch. The gray/black is the +12V. As you can see, the switch in the center (off) position, puts +12V on both sides of the motor, so nothing moves. When the switch is in the left position, one motor wire is grounded while the other stays at +12V, so the motor rotates. When the switch is in the right position, the other motor wire is grounded while the first one stays at +12V, so the motor rotates in the other direction.

This can be done with a simpler switch which doesn't have the center terminals, but these switches allow a switch on the driver's side (#95) to work with the passenger's side switch (not shown). My 330 GT solved this problem by putting both switches in console where both are reachable by the driver.

[Steve Meltzer]

Kerry, thanx for the diagram. As I sat looking at it, I was again reminded of why I'm not an engineer (as has been painfully obvious in this exercise)
s

[Steve Meltzer]

For those of you with nothing better to do, here's an update (hey, now I'm an official Ferrari PW blogger!) on my PW. I ran the offending window straight from the battery, using jumper wires to bypass the switch. That worked well and the motor didn't seem to get hot, so I pulled the switch. Close inspection showed that the contact points were all pitted. Looked like a bad set of ignition points, so I took an emery cloth to all 8 and then used the switch about 6X in rapid succession, which, of course, you'd never do under normal circumstances.. Motor ran fine and didn't get hot. Ready now to try this in "real life".

Further inspection of the mystery "3 terminal block" in the door shows that it must derive it's power from one of the 3 wires coming through the port on the inboard side of the door. From there, a wire on the terminal goes to a little device at the bottom of the outboard part of the door. It has a delicate lever and a plastic roller on it. Is this some sort of limit switch perhaps?? I have it, and it's 3 terminal source, out of the action at this point. Is this additional device, whatever the heck it is, necessary?

Thanx again. "Never enough time to do it right, always enough time to do it over"
steve meltzer

[330GT]

...Is this some sort of limit switch perhaps?? I have it, and it's 3 terminal source, out of the action at this point. Is this additional device, whatever the heck it is, necessary?
steve meltzer

From the description, this is a lower limit switch, designed to cut the 'down' power to the motor when the window is fully down. Assuming that is what it is, as long as you release the switch once the window is down, you shouldn't have any need of it.

A picture might be helpful.

BTW, pitted contacts raise the resistance, thus lowering the voltage. That makes the motor draw more current to do the work, hence the overheating.

[Steve Meltzer]

Thanx Kerry, my (remaining) knowledge from physics 102 would draw (pun intended) me to the same conclusion. RE: pitting increases resistance and thus current draw, as the voltage is fixed. Then again, that was at Ohio State, and the drawings (arggghhh!) might have been football plays. Regards. s
(I'll try to post some pix)