365 GT 2 + 2 restoration

[A.D.]

Thank you for all the input.

I had called out a synchronometer from Mike Pierce- he had sent me the one shown in the pictures above, but with a ready adapter to exactly fit the 40 DFI 5 carb. For those of you who are interested, he keeps these in stock, and i forget the price now, but it was in the region of usd 50....

Since the carbs were rebuilt by Mike Pierce, who took care of all the internal mechanical issues, i do not suspect that anything is wrong internally. Have instead proceeded to remove the offending carb from the engine, and cleaned out the jets with compressed air etc.

Will refit, resynchronise and keep you advised of the progress.

Best

A.D.

[250GT]

A.D.
Fist sychronize.
I would also advise to take out the mixture-adjusting screw of the" wrong" carburator.
and switch them to an other carb.
to adjust these you must turn them in compleetly, now only 10 cyl are working.( no fuel is coming)
slowly turn out this screw till you hear the engine is picking up the lost 2 cylinders.
turn a quater- thats 90degrees -wider and it schould run fine
Its possible that one of these adj. screw is bended/damaged by turning in.

its only a hobby here

Cornelis

[A.D.]

OK-v seem to be making progress. I havent seen for myself, but i am told that the carbs have now been set and the miss has gone. I was scheduled to get the car back finally for trial use over this weekend, but .... at the last minute the starter packed up again. Its turning slowly, or as we call it here "taking load"

As rerported earlier, i had checked the price of a new (as in rebuilt) starter, but it was so expensive that i thought that i would rebuild (as in rewind the armature) myself.

Any thoughts and suggestions on what could be done about the starter?

It is after all, not a complex mechanism, and if i had the correct details could probably get the rewinding/rebuilding done correctly.

I have access to several friends who own very large engineering plants and could request them if i knew what to ask them for.......so this is a question for all the engineers out there. :

[A.D.]

btw, in case your suggestion is still the same - to get the reduction gear starter from british starters, could you please confirm its the "212" starter for v 12 ferrari's from the 1950's?

[TOMKIZER]

Hi A.D,

I don't know what the number of the starter is, but they know which one fits the 365 GT 2+2. It's the first Ferrari starter they made by copying the flange from my original starter a few years ago. It's the one that started them in the Ferrari business. It's also the one they use in their advertising photo on Ebay, which shows a Marelli original starter beside their new smaller starter. If it helps, mention that it's the one they made for Tom Kizer in Quebec.

I still love mine and it starts the car instantly.

Tom Kizer

[A.D.]

I have ordered a starter from British Starters.
While i wait for this to arrive, the present starter was repaired and refitted on the car.
I went to see the car today.
The engine fires nicely, with a nice growly sound, but you can hear the miss at idle, which gets a little worse when revving up the engine.
At a higher RPM the miss converts into a backfire, several of them.
At my wits end.
Now i dont know what to do.
Since i couldn"t think of anything else have asked for a compression and leakdown test.
Any suggestions where i go from here?

[A.D.]

Hi Tom

Could you guide me on setting the timing on the engine, especially using a "timing light"?

Best

[tyang]

Hi Tom

Could you guide me on setting the timing on the engine, especially using a "timing light"?

Best

Hi A.D.,

Timing a Ferrari V-12 engine is dealt with like two 6 cylinder engines with one distributor handling each bank.

FIrst, you have to make sure you can see the timing marks on the flywheel. There are two sets of marks for each cylinder bank. "PM 1/6" marks are for cylinders 1though 6 and "PM 7/12." These are top dead center marks for cylinder number one on that corresponding bank of cylinders. WIth a variably adjustable timing light that has a dial on it with degree markings, you can set the timing light to the amount of advance, and the PM mark should light up at the pointer.

I'm away from my notes, so I cannot give you the specs for your car, but I can do so this afternoon. I can also give you a more detailed description then. Until then, I'm sure someone else here has good advice to lend!

Tom

[mark]

One important thing. The timing port on the 365 gt2+2 is on the underside of the bellhousing. During the production run it started out on the top side, right under the coils, just like the 330's. In fact my car retains the port at the top. The manual shows the top port and this of course is where I started, but the marks on the fly wheel were not to be found at the top.

It's a pain to lie under the car when it's running and point the timing light at the port, then adjust the distrubutor then crawl under the car again, and repeat. I painted marks at the top.

Cheers

Mark

[tyang]

Hi A.D.,

I have 330 specs, which I believe are the same timing specs as a 365GT. Can someone confirm?

Besides the PM 1/6 and the PM 7/12 marks there are two other marks for each cylinder bank (like timing 2-6 cylinder engines, remember?) are AM 10 and AM 42. There will be two sets of these marks before each of the PM marks corresponding to which banks you're checking. Remember that PM 1/6 marks TDC for Cylinder #1 which is the front right cylinder (passenger side of a LHD car.) PM 7/12 marks TDC for cylinder #1 for the left bank of cylinder but #1 cylinder is in the rear (closest to the driver on a LHD car)

At idle, and with no advance on the timing light, you should have AM 10 lit up (meaning 10 degrees BeforeTopDeadCenter) . Above 3000 rpm, you should see AM 42 (42 degrees BTDC). A daub of white paint will help show these marks better, but like Mark says, they're not easy to see.

If I've only made this more confusing, let me know and perhaps someone else can explain it better!

Tom

[A.D.]

Went and saw the Ferrari today.

The car fires up nicely and the engine sounds really good. Just like a Ferrari should!

However, as reported earlier, it is misfiring especially while increasing the rpm.

My understanding of timing is with a degree wheel (like in the msd how to set timing video)

Pretty basic. Or even less than basic.

I am therefore a little confused.

There is a timing port near the flywheel.

With the timing lite connected, on, and pointed at the port, the strobe lights up the timing mark which is in perfect alignment with the pointer built into the port.

Does this mean that the timing has been correctly set?

How do i know if it is x degrees TDC, advance or retard?

Sorry if i am asking inane questions but i am out of my depth here.

Best

[330GT]

See http://www.parrotbyte.com/kbc/ferrari/D ... ebuild.htm for information on 330 timing.

[A.D.]

Thank you.

Have downloaded the page.

I should add that my mechanic informs me that he thinks that the timing is not the issue-according to him the engine is leaking compression through carb number one -you can actually see an expulsion of vapour forced upwards out of the carb (with the aircleaner box removed) when the engine misfires. He suspects that this compression is leaking through the valves, and is veering towards opening the head once again and changing the valves/seats. Any thoughts?

Best

[250GT]

Hello A.D.

I have not read you're whole story on this thread.
And as always difficult to give the right handgrips on distance,
this:
"The fact that the engine fires up nicely "means that the timing is ALWAYS right, maybe a light correction is possible when checking.
Too test compression is easy. but first check clearance of valves 20/15 ex/in
Back firing can occur by unburned fuel in hot exhaust.
Or
Electric problem:
Crack in distribution cap ,worn leads or plugs ,condesators ,carbonplug in cap etc
Even a new plug can be broken or given problems .
look at night(dark) if you can see a stakkato of flashing sparkling on leads.
To regulate carbs must be done with motor warm

Cornelis

[tyang]

Hi A.D.,

The mark that lights up should be AM10, which is probably what is happening. When you rev the engine past 3000 rpm you should see the second set of marks come into view: AM42.

If your mechanic is right about the valve, you should do a compression leakdown test again to see if the intake valve is sealing properly.

If you have low compression in the cylinders, and it's the same ones that are back firing, it could mean a worn valve seats. A valve job, or new seats may be in order, meaning heads got to come off. Sorry.

You can ship them to the States to have them done if you can't have someone do them in India.

Tom