Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
First my usual disclaimer: I've X-posted this on FC as well. Rebuilt the rear calipers on my Daytona (left, rear was sticky). Calipers replaced and centered. I use an electric vacuum pump to bleed the brakes and have done so successfully on many different cars for years. This time however, no brake fluid came from any bleed screw, on either caliper. In the front, I was able to bleed both calipers easily, as I usually do.
So, I decided to try the conventional "two man" pedal method. Despite my wife's reluctance to play mechanic, again, no fluid came from the bleed screws. Furthermore, cracking open a brake line on either side (there are two per side) yielded no fluid seen there either, despite furious pushing by my wife. Weirdly (at least to me) the pedal is rock hard.
Is there something about the brake system on this car that I'm missing? I thought that next I'd try cracking open the juncture of the rear line where it splits right and left. Open to all suggestions. thanx steve
So, I decided to try the conventional "two man" pedal method. Despite my wife's reluctance to play mechanic, again, no fluid came from the bleed screws. Furthermore, cracking open a brake line on either side (there are two per side) yielded no fluid seen there either, despite furious pushing by my wife. Weirdly (at least to me) the pedal is rock hard.
Is there something about the brake system on this car that I'm missing? I thought that next I'd try cracking open the juncture of the rear line where it splits right and left. Open to all suggestions. thanx steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Done it in a similar manner many times. Don't know whats' up except maybe one of the unions that direct brake fluid to the rear may have gotten clogged - but looks like both sides would have to be clogged to get nothing out of either. Someone smarter than me will have to help.
Good Luck,
Drew
Good Luck,
Drew
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Sounds like you need to start loosening fittings closest to the master cylinder and see where the flow stops.
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
These systems are a PITA! There are several points of failure. Check the easiest things first, like a collapsed soft brake line. The brake line that you cracked open was at the caliper, or before the soft line? Your sticking caliper may have been from the failure of the rubber line acting like a check valve.
Tom
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Yes, Tom, I cracked open the soft line as it enters the caliper, but tomorrow, I'll crack it open where it joins the hard line. Tho' it seems so unlikely, maybe all 4 flex hoses failed some time ago (I bled the brakes 2 years ago, with ease). Could the MC have failed but only the circuit that serves the rear, or does it work that way? I agree: the "sticky caliper" may have been secondary to the bad flex hoses. Maybe have been driving on front brakes only! We'll see. thanx again to everyone. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Hi Steve,
The braking system Ferrari used on the Boxers, Daytonas, and GTC/4s are a little different than the other cars, so it's hard to say what it would feel like when one of the parts fail. When there is a M/C failure, you would feel a sinking pedal, or have a loss of fluid. It's very possible the rear weren't working, and you didn't know. I would definitely see if any fluid comes out between the M/C and the soft brake line.
Tom
The braking system Ferrari used on the Boxers, Daytonas, and GTC/4s are a little different than the other cars, so it's hard to say what it would feel like when one of the parts fail. When there is a M/C failure, you would feel a sinking pedal, or have a loss of fluid. It's very possible the rear weren't working, and you didn't know. I would definitely see if any fluid comes out between the M/C and the soft brake line.
Tom
'63 330 America #5053
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
thanx Tom. As you said, the MCs i've seen fail (super limited experience) resulted in a pedal on the floor. almost certainly, bad hoses. thanx again. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
OK, the diagnosis is: (drum roll, please) 4 rear brake hoses are toast. Free flowing brake fluid before the hose, none after. Probably been that way for awhile! Front hoses look nearly new, so won't be doing them for awhile, I hope. Onward, through the fog. thanx steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Not so fast big boy.....installed the hoses and the left rear caliper bled great, but one of the bleed screws on the right rear caliper wouldn't yield any brake fluid. Clearly (pun intended) brake fluid can be see from both hard lines, as they enter the caliper. Initially, the caliper was disassembled, soaked in carb cleaner for 24 hrs, then blown out with compressed air. Figuring it was in the caliper, I took it to a real mechanic who confirmed that the caliper was rebuilt correctly and therefore, not the problem. Still don't know why no brake fluid comes out the inboard most bleed screw. Where to next? arggggh. thanx. steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Three suggestions:
1. Could the bleed screw itself be plugged up? Remove it from caliper, verify that you can blow air through it.
2. With the brake hose & bleed screw both removed, blow a bit of air into the brake hose port at low pressure. Air & fluid should come out the bleed port. If not, something inside the caliper is blocking fluid from getting to the bleed port.
3. Turn towards Maranello and say a prayer?
Todd
1. Could the bleed screw itself be plugged up? Remove it from caliper, verify that you can blow air through it.
2. With the brake hose & bleed screw both removed, blow a bit of air into the brake hose port at low pressure. Air & fluid should come out the bleed port. If not, something inside the caliper is blocking fluid from getting to the bleed port.
3. Turn towards Maranello and say a prayer?
Todd
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
thanx so much. Checked the bleed screw first and it's fine. No brake fluid comes out, even if it's completely out of the caliper. Tested the caliper as you suggested and it's OK, or so says the pro. Not likely to be something in one of the channels after I cleaned it to within an inch of it's life. Could the proportioning valve (I guess that's the next thing upstream) be faulty and decrease the flow in some way? Is there a way to check the pressure in each line before it dives into the caliper? This shouldn't be this hard. thanx steve
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
Hi Steve, might want to try the Phoenix system reverse pressure bleeding system.If you see bubbles or fluid movement at the MC you know you have clear line.Good luck, Mike
72,365gtc4,14681,2007 599 GTB
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
When I get a chance, I've decided to take the caliper apart and go back to blowing compressed air through all of the passages once more. As Tom said, these Ferrari brakes are a PITA. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
There are brake line pressure gauges, just a hydraulic pressure gauge with adapters to fit various brake line sizes:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ssb-a1704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aAORYNLrzU
Todd
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ssb-a1704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aAORYNLrzU
Todd
-
- Posts: 989
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:31 am
- Location: with Barney the Beagle boy and Enzo 8995
Re: Bleeding the brakes on a Daytona
thanx, Todd. I'll look into that if re-cleaning the caliper doesn't fix this issue. On gross exam, both lines put out the same amount of fluid simultaneously, I still think the problem is some debris in one of the small passages within the the caliper halves. thanx. s
steve meltzer,
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."
"I've spent all of my money on wine, a beautiful woman, and stunning cars. Then, squandered the rest."