Front Suspension
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
I'm glad that at least I'm not the only one working through this process right now, and that I can hopefully benefit from this exchange. Last time I did it, lo these many years ago, I sized the bronze washers "by guess", and my friend Mr. Yang has so far resisted my pleas to properly document the process on this site.
It would seem that the inner pins need to go into their bushings with one arm already attached. Otherwise, you would seem to have little hope of getting the bolt relief in the inner pin to line up with the holes in the arm(s), since it has to be essentially a perfect fit.
So my interpretation of Dyke's comment above is that we should figure out what washers go where, with the upright, the arms and the inner pins all test-fitted on the bench. Then, we take one set of arms off the test assembly and re-assemble it on the chassis. Am I getting warmer?
My question, though, is what is the "starting point"? I presume it would be the bronze washers on the outer pins? So should we start with all those being the same thickness, and use washers of varying thickness on the inner pins to eliminate the end play?
It would seem that the inner pins need to go into their bushings with one arm already attached. Otherwise, you would seem to have little hope of getting the bolt relief in the inner pin to line up with the holes in the arm(s), since it has to be essentially a perfect fit.
So my interpretation of Dyke's comment above is that we should figure out what washers go where, with the upright, the arms and the inner pins all test-fitted on the bench. Then, we take one set of arms off the test assembly and re-assemble it on the chassis. Am I getting warmer?
My question, though, is what is the "starting point"? I presume it would be the bronze washers on the outer pins? So should we start with all those being the same thickness, and use washers of varying thickness on the inner pins to eliminate the end play?
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Dave, that is what I was trying to find out when I asked the question about the sequence, basically the question I still have is in what sequence do you put things back on the chassi so you have the least amount of struggle with the spring.
john
john
PF Coupe
Re: Front Suspension
John: I am surprised I am the only person responding to this. We mock up the entire suspension on the bench, then install it on the chassis, then install the spring.
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Thanks Dyke. As we are going thru the process step by step, what is the very last thing you do right after you put the spring in its nest? What is the last step in the process that bring it all together?
john
john
PF Coupe
Re: Front Suspension
John: The very last thing is to jack the spring and it lower "pad" up through the bucket from below, and install the circlip.
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
I got it now, thanks Dyke. Sorry, I just didn't know how to ask the question and created confusion. I'll soon find out if this step will work for me, seeing that the car is an empty hull and there is no weight to counteract the spring.
john
john
PF Coupe
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
Okay, so as of tonight, I know.
You start with mating the arms to the inner pins first, selecting thrust washers that will allow you to insert the keeper bolts in the split end of the arms while eliminating end play (fore and aft movement) in the pin/ A-arm assembly. Then, select thrust washers for the outer pins that will allow you to repeat this very close-tolerance fit, without tweaking the suspension arms or binding the rotating members. Make sure you still have reasonably free up/down movement in the suspension before inserting the spring.
As you can see from my photos, the spring isn't in there yet, but everything else lines up and pivots.
Thanks, Zac and Mike.
You start with mating the arms to the inner pins first, selecting thrust washers that will allow you to insert the keeper bolts in the split end of the arms while eliminating end play (fore and aft movement) in the pin/ A-arm assembly. Then, select thrust washers for the outer pins that will allow you to repeat this very close-tolerance fit, without tweaking the suspension arms or binding the rotating members. Make sure you still have reasonably free up/down movement in the suspension before inserting the spring.
As you can see from my photos, the spring isn't in there yet, but everything else lines up and pivots.
Thanks, Zac and Mike.
- Attachments
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- Starting point sm.jpg (378.71 KiB) Viewed 10907 times
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- Passenger side assembly sm.jpg (451.04 KiB) Viewed 10907 times
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
-
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
- David Booth
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:23 am
- Location: Vista, California
- Contact:
Re: Front Suspension
Hi John:
I used the Wurth Body Shutz product, which comes in fairly large bottles and is meant to be shot with their gun, which has a canister that the product bottle drops right into. It's water-based, making cleanup a simple matter.
Full disclosure, though:
* the car was a bare body and chassis - literally as "apart" as one of these can get. I think your Lusso is, too - which is a great starting point;
* it was also on a rotisserie, enabling me to work standing up and shooting straight ahead;
* as you can perhaps see in the picture, the car was wrapped in a static-cling paint masking plastic film;
* I wore the full-on bunny suit;
* I have a ridiculous amount of room in my shop. Ridiculous as in a lot, and not the space in the photo.
It seems to be a really good choice, since we can't replicate the original stuff, which was more than a quarter-inch thick in some places on my Cab . I was purposely sloppy, letting it splatter up into the engine bay.
I used the Wurth Body Shutz product, which comes in fairly large bottles and is meant to be shot with their gun, which has a canister that the product bottle drops right into. It's water-based, making cleanup a simple matter.
Full disclosure, though:
* the car was a bare body and chassis - literally as "apart" as one of these can get. I think your Lusso is, too - which is a great starting point;
* it was also on a rotisserie, enabling me to work standing up and shooting straight ahead;
* as you can perhaps see in the picture, the car was wrapped in a static-cling paint masking plastic film;
* I wore the full-on bunny suit;
* I have a ridiculous amount of room in my shop. Ridiculous as in a lot, and not the space in the photo.
It seems to be a really good choice, since we can't replicate the original stuff, which was more than a quarter-inch thick in some places on my Cab . I was purposely sloppy, letting it splatter up into the engine bay.
- Attachments
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- Underside small.jpg (113.2 KiB) Viewed 10880 times
1960 SII PF cabriolet #2105GT
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
1963 250GTE #4799GT with 330 America engine #5033GT
"...Luigi follow only the Ferraris.."
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Thanks Dave. That is the product we intend to use as well. Good to see your car is coming right along, must be exciting.
john
john
PF Coupe
Re: Front Suspension
The metalblack bracket- see pic- on the lower "jaw "gives the width of the whole construction.
so donnot start with the upper " jaw like DB shows
the holes in the bracket and lower arm will not line up .
I let my lathe man make at least 20 cuppper/ brass spacers extra with grease channels
the whole construction should be moveably by hand and doesn´t drop down by its own weight that is the right Friction
you can use a woodennhammer to check the friction
To SAND down those brass spacers is a jail job !!
I do not know how prof. shops do this but
I use very thin spacer from the US and cannot be seen from out side.
I can do the front construction on a saterday
ad the end JS the big springs goes through there spring holder with cir clip possible 2 positions in holder for driving high /low level.
best
Cornelis
see pics below
so donnot start with the upper " jaw like DB shows
the holes in the bracket and lower arm will not line up .
I let my lathe man make at least 20 cuppper/ brass spacers extra with grease channels
the whole construction should be moveably by hand and doesn´t drop down by its own weight that is the right Friction
you can use a woodennhammer to check the friction
To SAND down those brass spacers is a jail job !!
I do not know how prof. shops do this but
I use very thin spacer from the US and cannot be seen from out side.
I can do the front construction on a saterday
ad the end JS the big springs goes through there spring holder with cir clip possible 2 positions in holder for driving high /low level.
best
Cornelis
see pics below
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- IMG_2611.jpg (118.25 KiB) Viewed 10835 times
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- IMG_2613.jpg (105.65 KiB) Viewed 10835 times
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- IMG_2612.jpg (129.13 KiB) Viewed 10835 times
Re: Front Suspension
some more pics
C.
C.
- Attachments
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- IMG_2614.jpg (127.49 KiB) Viewed 10837 times
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- IMG_2615.jpg (128.67 KiB) Viewed 10837 times
Re: Front Suspension
Sorry JS should be read as JV.250GT wrote:The metalblack bracket- see pic- on the lower "jaw "gives the width of the whole construction.
so donnot start with the upper " jaw like DB shows
the holes in the bracket and lower arm will not line up .
I let my lathe man make at least 20 cuppper/ brass spacers extra with grease channels
the whole construction should be moveably by hand and doesn´t drop down by its own weight that is the right Friction
you can use a woodennhammer to check the friction
To SAND down those brass spacers is a jail job !!
I do not know how prof. shops do this but
I use very thin spacer from the US and cannot be seen from out side.
I can do the front construction on a saterday
ad the end JS the big springs goes through there spring holder with cir clip possible 2 positions in holder for driving high /low level.
best
Cornelis
see pics below
TYPO as usual
; John Vandarian.
good luck.
my free way space cannot be beaten by any one here, but is not org. of course.
to make it only by the brass spacers will you cost at least 2000 US more I think.
I am a real driver, not an org. freak.
C.
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- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:13 am
- Location: San Francisco Area
Re: Front Suspension
Cornelis, thanks for the tips. My left side fitted perfectly with no play, but the right side was a problem. The upper right links had too much fore/aft play ( loose by 0.007") and the lower one was too tight (by about .003"). I made up brass a shim for the upper one and spun the offending lower shim in the lathe while holding sand paper against it. Both are now perfect.
john
john
PF Coupe
Re: Front Suspension
John,
My problem here is to get the right FORCE on the arms with the castlenuts and the cotterpins combination.
DB zelfsecuring new nuts eleminate this of course but I don´t like the look of those
C.
My problem here is to get the right FORCE on the arms with the castlenuts and the cotterpins combination.
DB zelfsecuring new nuts eleminate this of course but I don´t like the look of those
C.